What happens when someone who never planned a life in politics ends up running a state? In the final weeks of his term, Governor Bill Lee sits down with Spencer and Carli in the old Supreme Court chamber of the Tennessee State Capitol to look back on eight years in office, using the Pattons’ family “rose, bud, thorn” ritual as a guide. They talk about his path from at-risk youth and prison reentry work to the governor’s mansion, the hardest days of his tenure, and the faith that anchored him through them. Plus: ketchup on a hot dog, and the few things in life that really matter.
About Governor Bill Lee
Bill Lee is a seventh-generation Tennessean and the 50th Governor of Tennessee, in office since January 2019 and now in the final months of his term. Before entering public service, he grew up in Franklin and led his family’s business, Lee Company. Spencer and Carli sat down with him in the old Supreme Court chamber of the Tennessee State Capitol to look back on his eight years in office.
The Governor Who Never Planned to Run
Lee says he never had political aspirations. His path to the governor’s office started with mentoring at-risk kids in East Nashville and meeting with men in a prison reentry program, work that stayed with him long before he held office. It led to the Alternatives to Incarceration Act, which he signed alongside a man he had mentored out of prison. In the crisis room during tornadoes and COVID, he says, he reminded himself that a hard moment “isn’t that,” and not to let it become more than it is. And every year he calls people receiving pardons himself, a moment he says he will never forget.
“It has been the highest honor of my life to serve the people of the state that I love so deeply.”
Governor Bill Lee
About the Office of the Governor
The Governor of Tennessee leads the state’s executive branch, serving as the state’s chief executive for a four-year term. Governor Lee was first elected in 2018 and reelected in 2022, and is term-limited and will leave office in January 2027.
Resources
Office of the Governor
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Spencer Patton: Welcome to Signature Required. It is intended for Tennesseans by Tennesseans
Governor Bill Lee, welcome to Signature Required.
Gov Bill Lee: Glad to be here. Welcome to the Tennessee State Capitol.
Spencer Patton: For those that are just listening, that are not watching, where are we seated?
Gov Bill Lee: Uh, we're in the historic old Supreme Court chamber, which is a part of this, uh, historic, uh, state capitol. M- most state capitols that are uh, you know, couple hundred years old are not still functioning, but this one is.
And this was the, uh, chamber where the original state Supreme Court met.
Spencer Patton: So I've got to read you in appropriately. Governor Bill Lee is a seventh-generation Tennessean and the 50th governor of Tennessee. In office since January 2019, and now in the final [00:01:00] months of his term. Governor Lee grew up in Franklin, where he still lives with his wife, Maria, on the family farm.
Prior to being governor, Governor Lee was president of Lee Company. He and First Lady are known to be strong people of faith, and that thread is central to the message that Governor Lee wants to leave behind. Um, Governor, when I first got to talk to you, uh, maybe it was three years ago, it was a phone call, I was so nervous.
I was so- ... nervous to talk to you, and I had never- Not,
Gov Bill Lee: not for long, right? Not after you talked to me a little.
Spencer Patton: I, I, I had never talked to a governor before, and I imagine for our audience, a lot of people will go their whole lives and never talk with a governor, uh, never speak with the president, never speak with people that are in really important parts of leadership.
So if you'll humor me, I wanna kinda humanize you just a little bit for our audience. I've got a couple kinda [00:02:00] playful questions for you- All right ... that I just wanna bring you into vision that Governor Lee, while full of authority and all kinds of leadership, is also still a human being, okay? I
Gov Bill Lee: reserve the right to not answer, but yeah.
Carli Patton: Wisdom. That's wisdom.
Spencer Patton: Three questions. One, you're at a cookout, and you have a hot dog. Does ketchup belong on the hot dog or not?
Gov Bill Lee: Absolutely not.
Spencer Patton: Absolutely not. No. I'm so glad. It's- See, you were gonna make- Um ... one of the two of us mad.
Gov Bill Lee: It's mustard.
Carli Patton: We'll fight about it more later, but-
Gov Bill Lee: It's totally mustard
Carli Patton: with all due respect, I disagree.
Spencer Patton: Question two, think to your childhood. What was your favorite childhood toy when you were growing up? What did you love to play with when you were little?
Gov Bill Lee: Yeah. Um, Matchbox, little Matchbox cars. We had, uh, my brother and I, and the, the only neighbor I had, which was, he lived about five miles away, was my age, and we, uh, we built these [00:03:00] master, uh, you know, out in the, out in the woods, we built these master tracks with Matchbox cars.
Spencer Patton: I was a big Lego guy. I loved playing with Legos. What were you guys-
Gov Bill Lee: I don't think, I don't think Legos were even invented when I was, when I was a kid. Maybe they were, but we didn't have 'em.
Carli Patton: I think I was a quintessential American Girl doll little girl. Mm-hmm. Like, I had all of the dolls- Yeah ... and all of the things, and I would pretend I owned a restaurant, and they were, like, working with me in my restaurant as a mom.
That's great. That was my, that was my game.
Spencer Patton: Last one. Bowl of mashed potatoes- Do you want the skins in the mashed potatoes or skins out of the mashed potatoes? Be careful
Carli Patton: how you answer this.
Gov Bill Lee: I wa- I want them out. I want them out- See ... and I just want a little, I just want butter and, and pepper on it, and that's about it.
All right.
Spencer Patton: Well, we're aligned on the hot dog. We are misaligned on the mashed potatoes, but- That's just
Gov Bill Lee: because that's the way my mom made them, right? So, uh, you know, that's the way I've always liked them.
Carli Patton: He did something for everyone there. He gave one to you, one to me. We're 50/50. There you go. So, there you go.
Spencer Patton: That's very fitting. Yeah. Uh, okay, Governor. [00:04:00] So for those that don't have any background in civics, really haven't had any reason to, why don't you just give us the quick kind of highlights, I'll give you a couple pieces, of, uh, being governor. So, um, how long do you get to be governor? Uh, and talk about a term limit.
Gov Bill Lee: Uh, you can be the governor for four years per term. And in the state of Tennessee, which is relatively new in our state, I mean, from the late '70s, um, you can serve two terms. So, uh, there are s- a few states in the country that are not term limited, and governors can serve in four-year terms as long as they'd like.
And in New Hampshire, it's a two-year term as long as you'd like. There's no term limits. But in Tennessee, four years per term, two terms, and you actually could run again once your term had expired. You could come back and run a second time, but [00:05:00] that's not gonna happen here. But that, that... But it's possible.
Spencer Patton: I thought we were gonna break some news right here. No,
Gov Bill Lee: we're not breaking any ne- You can break news that that's not gonna happen.
Spencer Patton: Um, inside of government, what are some of your primary responsibilities as governor? What do you actually do?
Gov Bill Lee: You know, yeah, my kids asked me when I, a year or two after I got elected, "What do, what do you do as governor?"
And I said, "You, you, don't take this wrong, kids, but you don't do much. You just decide a lot of things." Um- There, there's a tremendous amount of support, and staff, and people that are experts in policy and legislative affairs and, and, uh, communications, and all the things that you have to ... Y- that, that are a, an important part of being a governor.
Um, but you have really great teams of people. The most important thing to do, not just for this job, [00:06:00] but really for any position that you're in, I think, is to think through who are the right people to be on your team, 'cause this is a team sport. Um, starting with my wife, but then professionally with a, a communications director, a le- a, a policy director, a chief of staff, a legislative director.
Uh, you have experts to help you with all of the decision, gathering all the information, uh, that's required for every decision that you make. Um, y- you also have a cabinet of 23, in our case, um, you know, commissioners that run health and transportation and children's services and human services and, uh- It's like the C-suite
financial ser- it's just a, a, a cabinet. And so every one of those people have their expertise in the part of state government that you operate. So it's a, it's a big team.
Spencer Patton: Hmm. [00:07:00] And, and last just kind of basic questions. When is high tide for you in a busy part of the season? And then not that there's ever a low tide, but when are you less so?
I, I never appreciated this about the role of governor.
Gov Bill Lee: Well, you talked about civics, and of course you have three separate branches of government, the legislative branch, the executive branch, judicial branch. Uh, a division of powers that was a brilliant idea from the founders that makes sure that our government operates effectively with no one person or group of people having too much power.
The legislative branch meets in our state for about four months. It's statutorily required to start on a certain date, and then it, it doesn't have a statutorial ending. It doesn't have a required ending date. But when the legislature's in, for those three or four months, that's when all the legislation is passed, all the bills are signed, all [00:08:00] of the wranglings that go on in both chambers, uh, and all of the, you know, all the decisions are made around what is going to be law in the state of Tennessee.
It's an incredibly busy time from mid-January usually till about the 1st of May. Uh, it's a, it's a, it's a full on full court press
Spencer Patton: So Governor, the format for how I wanna get the most out of our discussion is something that we actually do around our family table, uh, each evening. So I'm gonna have Carli, because Carli brought this to our relationship.
You know, sometimes, like, when you get married, you each bring your own traditions and your own things, and I, I really... It's one of the best first date questions that you could have is, like, what are some of the traditions you have? Do you open a present the night before Christmas? Do you not open a present the night before Christmas?
So, um, Carli, why don't you introduce Rosebud and Thorn? 'Cause it's made a huge difference and impact in our family, and it's gonna be the theme of our [00:09:00] conversation with Governor
Carli Patton: Lee. Yeah. So four kids. You understand as a dad, the table is so loud. Yep. It's so loud. Yep. And I have everyone talking all over each other, and as a parent, I so desperately want to connect with each of them, but dinner, you're lucky if you get 20 minutes, and you don't get a real nugget from anybody, right?
Yep, yeah. If you aren't intentional. So we developed Rosebud and Thorn, and every night at the table... Well, let's be realistic. A majority of the nights at the table when we actually sit down and have this opportunity, we play Rosebud and Thorn, where I ask the kids, "What was your rose of the day? What was the thing that if you lay your head on the pillow tonight that, like, really brought you beauty today?
What was your thorn?" Because I learn a lot from hearing what stuck them that day. "And then what is your bud? What is the thing that you hope blooms or that you've looked forward to?" And so sometimes their thorn is that someone kicked dust into their eyeballs on the playground, but sometimes you get deep things, just like the [00:10:00] rose.
So that has been a really fun one for us.
Gov Bill Lee: Awesome. My, my, my family did a very similar thing. We just called it Hi/Lo What's your high? What's your low? And, uh, go around the table with each kid. We didn't do it every night, but when, when, you know, at the right time, and, um, it is a great opportunity. And then, you know, if you lay down with them at night or you spend i- putting them to bed, which I did a lot, you usually said, "Hey, tell me about that low- Mm-hmm
that you..." If it was something, 'cause they're not gonna talk a lot about it, it, but they usually will when they're real tired late at night and about to go to sleep, so. Those
Carli Patton: sleepy in between eyes. Yeah. Yeah. Or I will use that to inform how I pray over them on the way to school- Yeah ... the next day. It's good.
So they feel seen. But anyway, go ahead.
Spencer Patton: So the way that we'll do it is we're actually gonna start off with the bud.
Gov Bill Lee: All right.
Spencer Patton: And rather than asking your bud right now- Yeah ... 'cause you're at the very end- Yeah ... of your term as [00:11:00] governor, where I wanna start is take yourself back to when you won the office of governor.
What were your buds? What were your dreams at that point in time, never having been very involved in public life- Yeah ... political office, a true outsider? What was your bud? Take us back to that time.
Gov Bill Lee: Yeah, you know, uh, before that time Before that time, uh, life circumstances had put me into a situation where I wanted to be involved in nonprofits and sort of how I ended up running for governor, right?
I got involved in, in, in at-risk youth in the inner city and, uh, prison reentry program. And so I had in my heart, uh, a desire to make a [00:12:00] difference in the life of those underserved, those kids that I worked with in the inner city, or those men that were-- that I was w- meeting with in prison. Um, and that's what created the, I hope that one day I can do some things that would really change this situation.
And one thing led to another eventually, because I never really had any aspirations to run for governor. I never thought about being in government, wasn't gonna be. But, uh I, I do remember thinking if I could ever get into a place where I could really make a difference in this population or that population for those people, um, I'd like to do that.
So when I found myself elected Uh, m- my, my buds were like, "Wow, this can maybe really happen. Like, I really might be able to [00:13:00] choose a commissioner for Department of Correction that would understand my vision and then begin to make a change there, or, uh, you know, have someone in Department of Education that understood my vision and hope for kids that weren't in the best schools and didn't have all the opportunities that others did."
So my buds were born a long time before I ever, um, came into office.
Carli Patton: Isn't that just like how the Lord works?
Gov Bill Lee: Yeah.
Carli Patton: I mean- Though He never ... Let me say, God can do what He wants. I will not say He never. In my experience, the Lord doesn't typically elevate people that have aspirations for power. The Lord elevates people who in the dark sacrificial moments of night have shown up when it's not easy because the Spirit has impressed upon them work to do.
And it sounds like from the time we've known you and knowing your story, that was really your pathway to power, if you would call this power, but to leadership is not, "I want this. Let's [00:14:00] grab it," it's, "I'm serving here. What can I do to serve it next?" And it's been a ladder that He has taken you to climb.
Gov Bill Lee: And, and it's interesting you talked about the, the dark places of sacrifice and solitude. You know, that nonprofit work was really born from a very dark place in my life. Uh, my wife was killed when I was 40, my first wife, and, uh, I had four young kids, and it was a tragic, devastating event, as it would be for anybody.
And, and everyone has their moment in life that is difficult, but that one was, um, surreal and, and tumultuous. But it was also very transformational for me, I mean, in the way that God alone can redeem. Um, what came out of that season for me was a, a need and a desire, [00:15:00] not only for me, but for my four children, to get out of ourselves, to go beyond.
And, you know, s- serving is one of the most healing effects, has one of the most healing effects ever. And so our kids, my kids and I went to, um, we went to Africa to work in a refugee camp and, and, and involved in this home for trafficked girls, and we built homes for families in Mexico. We worked in an orphanage in Haiti.
And, and those led me then to the nonprofits at home, closer to home, that led to public policy desire around education, criminal justice reform, tort reform, business reform, um- So yeah, from, from unknown places come redemption through the Lord for opportunity to serve and, and I, I'm [00:16:00] the beneficiary of all that
Spencer Patton: And just in that moment when you win the race to be governor, for those that haven't studied the history of that, which is probably most, you were an incredibly unlikely candidate-
Gov Bill Lee: Right
Spencer Patton: at the start. Right. And even, like, six weeks before the election, you were 15, 20 points away. I mean, like, when you arrived at the place of being elected, was there a moment of imposter syndrome, of, like, dog catching the car? I mean, I, I just, I feel like that's what makes running for office sometimes so intimidating to so many people because it's like, "I have all these dreams, but I don't actually know how any of this stuff works."
Gov Bill Lee: Yeah, there are a couple moments like that. Um, and it was a surprise to people. [00:17:00] I, I remember the headline of the largest print publication in this state. The beginning, the opening lines of it were something like the biggest Cinderella political story in modern Tennessee politics, right? Yeah. Um, because six weeks before, the...
most people had no belief at all that this was gonna happen. Um, there was a, a moment about, um, w- well, it was kinda the first day of early voting. We'd been behind in the polls, way behind and 30 and 40 points behind forever, right? And it all changed in the last, uh, 60 days. But, uh, on the first day of early voting was actually the first time that our political team that was working around me, um, recorded that we were tied or up in the polls.
We were up by one on the first day of early voting, and we had been [00:18:00] behind for the entire two years. And I did a little town hall in a very small, uh, you know, town in the, in the mountains in East Tennessee, and there were 100 people showed up at 8:00 in the morning at this little, um- a donut shop, coffee shop place.
And it was a surprise there were 100 people there. It was a lot. I'd been used to going to my town halls where, where my public events, and there might be six or eight or 10. Uh, becasue who wants to go to the, you know, someone that's not gonna win. But, uh, there were 100 people that day, and after I finished speaking, my political guy, my chief of staff to, became my chief of staff, was then my consultant, held the phone up and showed me that we were up by one.
And I got in the RV, we were riding around in, I got in the car, and I looked at Maria, and I said, "You know what, Maria? We're gonna win."
Carli Patton: Mm.
Gov Bill Lee: And for the first [00:19:00] time, we kinda looked at each other and we're like- ... like, "I'm gonna be the governor. What do I, what are we gonna do?" I mean, this is gonna, this is gonna really happen.
Uh, I had so many smart people around me. I never really thought, what in the world will we do here? It really was, uh, turn to the people that were on our team and say, "Just tell me what to do next." It was a little bit like- Uh, the idea of what do you do as governor, and I tell my kids, "You don't really do anything, you just, uh...
You do, y- you obviously do things, but y- you really decide a lot, you take in a lot of information." And it, when it really hit me and the moment came, it was looking at the folks around me and saying, "Okay, we, we, we did catch this car. Now, d- give me, how do I get into it?" You know? Yeah. How do I, how do I get
Carli Patton: in- What's the next right-
Gov Bill Lee: Yeah
thing? What's the next step here? We do- Yeah ... we've done this. [00:20:00] It worked. Y'all were right. You said if we did this it would work, and you were right, so, uh, where do we go from here?
Carli Patton: Okay, I wanna piggyback off of that, 'cause when we were talking about this, and I've had the privilege of talking to you th- about this a little bit in the past, was it's so easy to look at people's stories in hindsight, right?
You've been governor nearly eight years. Tennessee is doing amazing things. We are leaders in the nation in so many ways. But you don't know that that's gonna be the case when you step out in faith decades ago, saying, "Okay, I need to help my kids know that the world is bigger than our tragedy- Right ... so we're gonna step out and do what looks bold to us right now, which is do international missions."
You don't know when you guys set out and s- are driving by mailboxes, praying over people that could be your constituents someday, saying, "What if we could be governor?" You have no idea you're gonna get to do that for eight years. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about [00:21:00] spiritually how you even get to a place of trust to do the scary jump off the cliff thing, not knowing if it's gonna be successful or not?
Because you had to step into this, sir, with no guarantee that after all of your time, money, energy, that you were gonna arrive at the goal. And I think whether people are politicians or spending hundreds of hours a week in a car driving their kids to school, all of us have these unknown things that we have to decide, "Am I willing to do it?"
So could you talk a little bit about that faith journey?
Gov Bill Lee: I, I do think that, um, trusting, you know, trusting for the future is something that we learn in, over our lifetime. Um-
I've had a lot of experiences in my life. I've had a [00:22:00] lot of difficulty and a lot of success and a lot of joy, and I lived the best life a man could ever live until I didn't. And then there were two or three things along that stretch of time that were just compoundingly dark. And, um, and then there was a season of sort of the sun coming up again and, and moving.
You know, these seasons of life that we go through, and I'm kind of an old guy now, so I've been through a lot of seasons of life, including serving as the governor of the state of Tennessee for eight years. That was a season of life that I'll never, uh, obviously never forget, but, uh, impactful. Um-
The Lord, I mean, my, my faith is certainly the anchor. He's never failed me, and I've had some really awful moments [00:23:00] Where I hoped he wouldn't fail me. I didn't... I asked him, you know, "I hope you don't fail me here." And I have the privilege now of living this, uh, living at this point in my life and looking back and going, "He didn't.
He didn't fail me. He didn't fail me then or there or here or there." And those include, uh, successes, too, like things that went really well and you're like, "Gosh, you, you did that for me." Um, but trusting the future is a cumulative and accretive, uh, uh, you know, sort of process in our lives. By the time I ran for governor, you know, I had lost a wife, I had, uh, built, I'd built a business, I'd lost a wife, I almost lost a business.
I almost lost a ch- a second child. I had a child that, my first wife and I had a child that died in childbirth. Uh, I had a series of just, like, really hard things [00:24:00] happen in my life. But, but also had beautiful, wonderful things, children, and, uh, this, and this life I lived. And the Lord brought me a remarkable wife who is, you know, Maria's the First Lady of Tennessee, and she is the First Lady in my life.
And, uh, uh, that's a whole spectacular story. Um, he's never failed me. And when I started to run for governor, I genuinely was, uh, had in my heart, like, if this works, this will be awesome. If it doesn't work, it'll be just fine. I had a great life before, I'll have a great life after, and I might get to be governor.
At the very worst, uh, uh, the worst thing that can happen is I lose. And my identity wasn't sort of built upon ha- grabbing this job. I'd never really thought that much about having it earlier in my life to begin with. So I was in a good position. I was set up [00:25:00] I was set up to run for office without a deep, deep ambition.
Now, once I decided to run, I was all in, and I, I, I was committed to win, and to do anything and everything I could to win, short of things I didn't think were a right thing to do. But, um, I was set up for it.
Spencer Patton: So we're gonna go on, and we're gonna do thorns next.
Gov Bill Lee: All right.
Spencer Patton: So-
Gov Bill Lee: Lots of those.
Spencer Patton: Uh, so as you reflect back and think through these last eight years, we might do a couple of these, but what are some of the low points that come to mind that you have had to carry during your time as governor?
Carli Patton: And they may be things that people have read about, and they may be things that nobody knows.
Gov Bill Lee: Um, I mean, the low point certainly was my wife, uh, getting sick, and [00:26:00] the day we determined that she had a very rare and serious form of cancer. It came in 2022, and the m- we were, were... I was running for re-election.
We were kind of in the middle of that, and, uh, because it was in August of 2022 that she was sick in July and August. But, um, and when, when I found that out, it was... Everything else kind of swept to the side. Although I was running for re-election, and I was the governor, and there was this, this task before me, but, uh, that was the, that was a low point for sure.
I, I... You know, there were, there were two or three that, um, that I won't ever forget. When I got the phone call that, um, we had had a school shooting and that children were killed and teachers were killed, and then I asked, [00:27:00] uh, where was the school, and they said it was in Covenant School, and I knew the people that...
I knew the headmaster at Covenant. I knew teachers there, I knew kids there, and I knew families. And so I knew that it just might possibly be that I knew some of the people in the tragedy, and it certainly was true. But the moment I got that phone call, it was kind of one of those things that you hope never happens while you're the governor.
I, I would, I would, I would just remind my... I would, I would say, "Gosh, I hope we never have a school shooting." It's kind of the most tragic of things to happen. Um, I won't forget that. Um, one of the more stunning moments was when we had our first COVID case. And because no one knew what was coming, and no one knew what that was, but it was a little bit...
I was early in my tenure, and That was new. That w- that was a new, uh, [00:28:00] unknown sort of big national story that was gonna, that was yet to unfold, but- '
Spencer Patton: Cause you were sworn in when?
Gov Bill Lee: I was sworn in in January of '19, so this was in March of '20, uh, that, that first case. We'd had a big, sweeping set of tornadoes that moved through our state, uh, the week, that same week.
President Trump came here, and we toured these devastated families and homes, and it was a, it was a big w- we had, uh, i- if my memory's correct, there were 26 people killed in that tornado that night. String of tornadoes across the state. Um, and so it was a bad week. It was a really hard week, and the, the, it was not the first natural disaster we had, but it was the b- it was the big one that we had had so far.
And then within just a couple of days, [00:29:00] uh, we had our first COVID case, so 2020 was quite a year. You had COVID, then you had the, uh, George Floyd killing and the unrest, uh, all over the state, and that was in July. The, most of the protests were in July and August, and those occurred all over the country during COVID in the midst of natural disasters.
Um, it was quite a, quite a second year, and it, uh, for, for a governor that was relatively new, it was, it was a lot all at once. But Again, you, you know, you, you kind of feel like, uh, you're set up for these days, and you... People would, would oftentimes say to me before I ran for governor, you know, "I hope you, hope you have thick skin," and, "Are you sure you wanna do this?"
And, "It's gonna be really... There will be some really bad times." And [00:30:00] I remember saying, "You know, I, I know what a bad day is, and you can... And I know that you can walk through bad days. And so I don't want for bad days, but I think I can navigate them." And we did, we did that year for sure, and many times throughout, throughout the eight years.
It's part of the job.
Spencer Patton: Governor, it's a fingerprint that we see on guest after guest after guest that come on our show that the Lord prepares people for what they're going to need, and that preparation can happen years or decades- Mm ... in advance, and sometimes all of it.
Gov Bill Lee: Yeah, yeah.
Spencer Patton: Depends on how much you're gonna need- Yeah
and how long it takes you to learn the lesson sometimes. Yeah, yeah. But I really appreciate your commentary there that you know what a [00:31:00] bad day looks like and feels like, and that it's survivable. And I feel like all of us are able to draw on those moments as we are called to confront different things into our future is, is pulling back on that journey.
And it, and it, and it echoes what you said earlier that I imagine those are some of the moments where you're praying, "Lord, don't fail me."
Gov Bill Lee: And you, you don't always go back to that unless you are pretty intentional about it. We have a tendency to drift on in life and live and deal with the issues that are happening right now, something...
A- and not remind ourselves of the fact that He never leaves nor forsakes you, that He won't fail you, that, uh, that faithfulness, His faithfulness, and just the fact that you, you not [00:32:00] only survived these events in your life, and we all have them. I mean, I have my little series of stories that I, you know, lay out there about the hard times in my life, but everybody has them, some, some deep in childhood that are very traumatic and they have to carry with them their whole lives, some when they're teenagers, 20, 30, 40, different times.
We all have them. Because they're painful, we often try to, try to forget them, and we don't think about them very much, or we let them, what- whatever we do with them. I do think going back to them, and I can't tell you how many times I would sit in the crisis room of whatever we were dealing with at the moment, and, and it's crisis.
You know, you've got, you've got things happening, and it's y- it's, it's a crisis. You got teams all around. What are we gonna do? What do we say here? What are the decisions? How do we communicate this effectively? How do we bring the most calm into this for the people of our state? How do we console? How do [00:33:00] we...
You know, all of the stuff. But I would oftentimes kinda lay my head down at night and go, "You know what, Bill? This isn't that. Remember, this isn't that, and so don't let it become more than it is. And you, you know how to deal with that." And part of that's spiritual, right? Like, you know from where your strength comes Just apply that same principle here
Carli Patton: That's so wise and so applicable to l- literally every facet of life
Gov Bill Lee: Every facet
Carli Patton: For people listening, to know me is to know I have, like, a soapbox that I get on about popular slogans, especially what they put on kids' T-shirts Right?
Like, you will not see me putting, like, "Girl power" or- ... "If you dream it, you can do it," you know, those things, because they are not true. Mm-hmm And I [00:34:00] think so much of what w- the culture and what's popular to tell ourselves is, "Suck it up, you can do it," or, "You are capable of big things," but it's really the hardest moments- Mm-hmm
and the training that we go through in the dark- Mm-hmm ... that gives us our confidence. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm Not these placating, positive, can-do energies. And I, I... It's something in the faith community, it's something in parenting that is, like, really passionate and put on my heart. And so I wonder, as you're... What you're doing is washing your brain with truth over and over again in these hard places.
Is there a specific passage or part of the word, is it your stories, or is there a part of truth that you wash over yourself that has particularly been meaningful to you in, in those places? Selfishly, I would just love to know what it is
Gov Bill Lee: Um, I mean, there are certainly scriptures that are more [00:35:00] life kind of verses.
Uh, there's a, there's a scripture in Psalms that we actually had put on the side of our little campaign bus to remind us, uh, that says, "Though you have made me see troubles, many and bitter, you will restore my life again." And then there's a, if you follow that passage, it talks about being lifted up again, and then at, at, at the very end it says, "But as for me, I will always have hope."
And I think for me, um... And look, I, I have not lived a tragic life. Like, I've lived an incredibly blessed life. I had a wonderful family and grew up out in the country in a real rural environment and, uh, my, you know, my folks stayed together and we... There were five siblings and we grew up on a farm, [00:36:00] and went off to college and met my, you know, met my first wife and raised four beautiful kids, and lived back on the family farm and was in a business and it was thriving, and I've had a, I had a blessed life.
I had some very tragic moments that have, that have, uh, you know, shown up along this 67-year journey that I've lived on, but it's been a marvelous life. Um- sprinkled with strain. My son and I were actually sitting together just this past week. We, we went hunting together. We went, we drove, we went up to South Dakota and hunted pheasants for the weekend.
It was, I'd only ever done that once before, and he was going, and he asked me if I would go, and we did. And we sat for two hours in the evening, uh, watching the sunset over the prairie in this beautiful spot. Um, and he was talking about the fact [00:37:00] that his son was the same age that he was when his mom died.
And, and we talked-- He said, "It's, it's been kind of surreal for me to watch my young boy, knowing now what I knew and where I was in life when that happened." And then he said to me, "You know, I've, I've kind of decided that, uh, struggle or, or, or difficulty is just a very important part of life." And here's my thirty-five-year-old son.
You hope And you know, I mean, I've been watching him, but... And all four of my children. You hope that, that that's what the end result is, is that this grasping of the beauty and the pain, and the good and bad, and the bitter and the sweet, and all of that as part of your life is what makes it wonderful. And, and it's important, and it's a part of it.
So that scripture, "Though you've made me see troubles many and bitter, [00:38:00] you will restore my life again." And as for me, I will always have hope. I, I can kind of face whatever day life brings me with that reality. This might be bitter, it might be sweet. Whatever it is, I'm hoping for the future, and I know it has a good ending.
Um, that's a, that's a, it's a truth that I'm really grateful for.
Spencer Patton: Well, Governor, we're coming out of the thorns now. All right. So we're going into the roses, uh, and this is the fun part. Yeah, that's right. So, um, as you reflect over the last eight years, since we had a couple thorns, we're gonna get at least a couple roses here.
There you go. So tell us the things that you look back on and you are most excited, proud, fulfilled by. What are your roses?
Gov Bill Lee: I mean, there's some big policy wins, right? That were, that were... When I ran, I used to say, "Hey, we, you know, [00:39:00] people just want a good job and a good school for their kid, and a safe neighborhood."
That's what Tennesseans want, that's what we ought to be about. You know, we've made enormous advances in education. Our, our state was 34th in outcomes, it's 17th now. We, we have, uh, we have opened the door and begun universal school choice, which is something that was born in my working with at-risk kids over in East Nashville, you know, 20 years ago, long before I was the governor.
Uh, that's where that came from. Um, s- so, you know, good schools, good jobs, um- We're one of the most economically vibrant states in the country. I mean, I mean, there's just no doubt about that statistically. When people get good jobs, when you, when you have a, a good economy, you have more opportunity. Our poverty rate fell from above the national average to, to, [00:40:00] to a couple points below the national average on a, uh, on an adjusted basis.
That is a very big deal to me when I think about people having a good job. Safe neighborhoods, um, we made huge investments. Our highway patrol is 50% bigger with 50% more pay, and, and, and our investments in Memphis have cut crime for, to the lowest rate in 20 years in that very important city.
Spencer Patton: There's transformation happening.
Uh, uh,
Gov Bill Lee: there's- Yeah ... stuff happening there. So yeah, big policy wins, um-
Some of the best moments though were things that people didn't see, but that were really big to me
I signed a piece of legislation called the Alternatives to Incarceration Act that was born out of my work in nonprofits with men coming out of prison. [00:41:00] But I signed that, um, piece of legislation alongside of... It was a public signing ceremony with people all around, legislators. But the guy sitting next to me was, um the, the guy that I had mentored coming out of prison.
And he was, uh, formerly incarcerated and was successful, and his son was with him, and we sat at the table and signed that legislation. And I remember sitting there thinking... It was emotional for me, and I remember thinking, "This is why I ran for governor, right here." Um Something that was born much earlier.
I, I have a lot of those moments that are highlights for me. When I do, um, uh, I've done graduations in prisons for men that sometimes are in, in for life, but they've gone ahead and gotten their degree. We did a foster care... We did a [00:42:00] foster kid adoption service in the foyer of the residence. Watching foster kids that have been in the system for 10, 12, 14 years become adopted and move into a family is a powerful thing to witness that most people don't see.
Um, there's a lot of those little moments that You just get to witness. You didn't do it, that you were a part of a process of getting it done, but I get to witness it, and it's powerful. You know, we do clemency every year, and I actually call... I try to make, I make an attempt to call every person that's either being granted a pardon or, um, some- some sort of clemency and You just can't imagine the [00:43:00] responses of people when they pick up the phone and you say, "This is Governor Lee, and you made an application for a pardon."
And because it was, could've been two years earlier. They don't know it's coming. They don't know the day. They don't know anything about it. And you call them and say, um, "At noon today you're gonna get a pardon."
Spencer Patton: Wow.
Gov Bill Lee: And the responses are unforgettable. Uh, and, and nobody gets to see that. It's not a public thing, but it's something I'll never, ever forget.
Some of the responses I'll carry with me forever
Carli Patton: I do wanna ask, amongst all of these roses, to know you is to know how deeply you care for your family, for your wife, your kids, your grandkids, and I think that's one part that not holds people back, but makes people pause before they come to serve.
They're like, [00:44:00] "How can I continue to show up? How can I do this well if these people I love might get a little less of me?" And so you've had all of these buds coming in. You've had some thorny days throughout your life, but you've had so many roses, and you're looking at the end here, and we've had the privilege of meeting Maria on multiple occasions.
She... Like, you out kicked your coverage. Yeah. That woman is incredible. No doubt about that. That woman is incredible. Yeah. The humility and kindness that she oozes in every space, um, it makes me want to be at events. You're lovely, but it makes me want to be at events that you guys are at- Yeah ... 'cause I really just wanna be like, "Hey, Maria."
Gov Bill Lee: It's always a better event when Maria's there. Yeah. There's no doubt about that.
Carli Patton: So can you talk to the family aspect, that part where people might be like, "My heart is to serve. I feel like the Lord has burdened my heart for A, B, or C, but I'm a mom first. I'm a dad first. I'm a grandparent first"? How do you balance that, and what would, what advice would you give to people that are questioning?[00:45:00]
Gov Bill Lee: You know, there's no doubt That it takes a toll. Um, in fact, I, a- a year or so ago, I kind of was talking to my children about that, about the fact that, you know, this job's kind of taken a toll on me. It's part of the reason I look forward to being done, is to restore my own self. Um, it's taken a toll on me spiritually.
It's taken a toll on me with my family and with my friends. But the t- the, the, the extent of that toll is really kinda, uh, what you have to manage, right? You know there's gonna be a price to pay. It, it... And you calculate that when you walk into this. I had remarkable... I've had a remarkable wife who was completely, uh, supportive of doing this, and in fact, I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a team effort.
Maria and I do [00:46:00] this together. We really have. From campaigning all the way through, it's been a remarkable thing for us. We were talking about that just last week, like, you know, it's gonna be a challenge for our next season to be as together even as this one is, has been. But my children are amazing, and they are uniquely gifted and resilient, and they've been through challenges of their own.
They're, they're all rooted in their faith. And so my kids were not only supportive, but, um, they, they recognized there would be a price to pay there. And It'll be, it'll be, it'll be fun to not have to pay that price. But I will also say I was very intentional. Your schedule is indescribable. Uh, everything can get pushed out.
Everything. Everything can get pushed out. All the things that I said took a toll on family, spiritual, [00:47:00] personal, friends, they can all actually be eliminated in this process because it sw- it, it, the job itself can fill every corner and aspect of your life. There's no time for anything else, but unless you make time for it.
And I was very disciplined. I have a great scheduling team. They work with me, and they understand what's important to me. Very disciplined to schedule lunch with my daughter. You know, make it happen. W- find out way in advance when is grandparents' day at the school. Make sure those things get on the calendar.
Make sure that Maria and I have time. Make sure that we go home for the weekends. Uh, most weekends, we always held Sundays out. No scheduling on Sunday, you know, 99% of the time. But then it turned into, how about we try not to schedule anything on most weekends, except maybe an event on [00:48:00] Saturday, but not much.
Uh, and we would go to the farm. We st- lived in the residence five days a week, stayed on the farm on the weekend. N- didn't do anything there but make sure that we connected with kids and grandkids. So just had to work at it, recognizing there's a price to pay, but it's worth it.
Spencer Patton: Mm.
Gov Bill Lee: It's worth it.
Spencer Patton: Governor Lee, we land each podcast with a couple short sentences with a fill in the blank at the end.
Uh, so you can finish it with a word or a short phrase or a sentence that you feel like completes the thought. But if you'll just repeat the short prompt that I give to you and then fill it in with whatever you think. I've got two of them for you, okay? All right. The few things in life that really matter are blank.
Gov Bill Lee: The few things in life that really matter
[00:49:00] Or My relationship with the Lord and how that is manifest in what I do with my life towards other people.
Spencer Patton: The thing I will miss most about being governor is blank.
Gov Bill Lee: The thing I'll miss most about being governor is the
Unending opportunity to interact with Tennesseans in every walk of life
Spencer Patton: Governor Lee, it's been an incredible honor to get to sit in the old Supreme Court here with you and have an hour of your time. Uh, we talked earlier about scripture, and one of my [00:50:00] favorites is in Exodus when Moses is telling the Lord the reason why he can't go to Pharaoh and make the case to get the Israelites out, and I like to imagine in my head that the Lord sarcastically replies back to Moses, "Who made your mouth?"
It's Exodus 4:11, "Who make mouth?" And so Carli and I, before we go into moments where- ... we're nervous about speaking or doing something, we'll just look at each other and say, "Who make mouth?" And that's our reference to that- There you go ... scripture. That's awesome. And so for you, it's a reminder to me that the Lord's arm is not too short to accomplish whatever.
Yeah. And to see you raised up into this place of leadership was not an accident. It was intentional, and you've been an incredible steward of the time that you have held this office. So in our quest to answer the question, what makes Tennessee so special, what makes Tennessee Tennessee, we are thrilled to put you very high ranking- Thank you, sir
in that answer.
Gov Bill Lee: Thanks, y'all both. It's, it's [00:51:00] certainly been the highest honor of my life. As imperfect as I am, and as broken as I am, and as, as, as, as, uh, imperfect the decision-making process has always been, it has been the highest honor of my life to serve the people of the state that I love so deeply.
Spencer Patton: Carli, we got to interview the governor of Tennessee.
Carli Patton: What are we doing here?
Spencer Patton: I mean, signature required. The governor of Tennessee, Bill Lee, getting to do so in the old Supreme Court room. This is just a really full circle moment-
Carli Patton: Yeah ...
Spencer Patton: for the two of us to get to be in this place and talk with a very [00:52:00] real, authentic-
Carli Patton: Mm-hmm
Spencer Patton: Governor Lee, that I think it's the great thing about being in the final 60 to 90 days with no further political aspirations- Mm-hmm ... that he can speak very transparently, and that's really what we got from him today.
Carli Patton: Hearing his heart for his family, for the people of Tennessee, for the Lord, I'm really struck by this was and wasn't a political podcast taping, right?
We surely talked some about politics and looked over his last eight years, but it was really in a complete celebration of how good God is in the moments you would never ask for, on the days that most people dread and hope never happen to them, and on the highest of highs. This was to glorify the Lord for how he has stayed in it with Governor Lee and his leadership and his fatherhood, [00:53:00] and, um, I'm just leaving with so much praise in my heart.
Like, it was faith-affirming. 'Cause you and I are traveling all the time. We're doing some things that people see, so many things that nobody sees, and that's how it should be. Like, no one needs to be in all the weeds with us. But to come across someone that the Lord has so faithfully shaped and to watch him do that work, not with these broad brush strokes, but, like, being in it each day.
What is the wisdom for today? What is the next right step? That affirmed my faith. This last hour affirmed my faith in a way that I didn't, I didn't even know I needed when I walked into the Capitol today.
Spencer Patton: I've always had this imagination that when you're in such an important leadership role as Governor Lee, that in those circumstances, when all the doors close and he prays, "Lord, what am I supposed to do with this decision?"
That [00:54:00] you actually hear from the Lord- ... in that moment, right? Like, there's a, there's a special phone or there's some insight, and I think it was so- Oh ... transparent for him when he's trying to make the best decisions that he can, and he knows what's at stake. And the commentary that he gave when the chips are down and he's saying, "Lord, please don't fail me here.
You've never failed me so far," and the training that went into his confidence to be able to stand firm in those moments where it was very important for our state, for millions of people, the 7.2 million people that live in Tennessee That leadership is a significant answer to the question that we've been searching for on this podcast, which is, what makes Tennessee special?[00:55:00]
Carli Patton: Godly leadership has an impact, period. It's why I think a lot of Christians think... I have to be careful how I word this. They think that politics is beneath them. Mm-hmm. And, and there is something to, we are living for a heavenly kingdom, right? We're, we're waiting for the end of time, right? You're living with eternity in mind, which allows you to think about sacrifice and hard things differently.
Like, that's all true. But you still remember the exiles in Babylon that were told, "Hey, plant. Hey, seek the betterment of where you are while you are here." Mm-hmm. And I think believers overlook that a lot. Not all of them. We've met some really incredible people on this journey, but it matters who is in leadership.
Mm-hmm. It matters who they serve. Are they serving themselves, or are they serving something bigger than themselves?
Spencer Patton: Yeah.
Carli Patton: And God can work in and through anyone, and he has shown [00:56:00] that across time. But godly leadership matters. And then the other thing that I think people forget when they're voting and when they're thinking about leadership is it's not just the person in the chair.
It's the hundreds and thousands of people that they put in leadership to help govern the state. Yeah. You heard him say the next right thing is what his team brings to him. And when you're thinking about who to vote, I think it's really easy to get lost in the weeds. Like, "I don't like this person. That ad was not my favorite.
They said this." Who is going to pick people of character and principle to govern in the places that you care about? Your department of corrections, right? Your people in charge of faith and human flourishing. Like, who's gonna lead health and human services? Yeah. And I get really passionate because it's not about the person up front.
Leadership is about the people behind the scenes that are making the [00:57:00] difference and the impact to everyday
Tennesseans.
