Senator Jack Johnson on Tunnels, Tolls, and Tennessee Politics
Tennessee Senate Majority Leader Jack Johnson breaks down the mechanics behind the Boring Company's underground tunnels, Choice Lanes, and the real drivers of Tennessee's explosive growth. From navigating misinformation to the sacrifice required for public service, Johnson reveals why state government is where problems actually get solved.
About Jack Johnson
Senator Jack Johnson is the Majority Leader of the Tennessee State Senate, representing Williamson County for nearly two decades. First elected in 2006, he plays a key role in shaping state policy and sponsoring Tennessee’s multi-billion-dollar budget.
Before entering public office, Johnson built a career in banking and financial management after moving to Nashville. He is known for his practical leadership style and commitment to serving Tennesseans.
From Policy to People
Johnson’s work focuses on solving everyday challenges across the state. From infrastructure and traffic solutions to education and economic growth, his leadership is centered on keeping Tennessee strong and growing.
He also emphasizes the importance of service at every level. His message is simple: strong communities are built when people step up and get involved.
Resources
Jack Johnson
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Carli Patton: Welcome to Signature Required. It is intended for Tennesseans by Tennesseans.
Spencer Patton: Senator Jack Johnson, welcome to Signature Required.
Jack Johnson: Well, it's great to be with you. Thanks for having me.
Spencer Patton: We're thrilled to have you here. We have a lot of really interesting topics. You have served as senator in Tennessee, in the state legislature for how long?
Jack Johnson: I'm in my 20th year, uh, which is hard to believe.
It has flown by, seems like yesterday I was running for the first time.
Spencer Patton: It's unique in that. At 20 years in most occupations, I think you would say you're extraordinarily savvy, a veteran, and you've been there for longer than most people in the private sector. But I feel like in the legislature is one of the only places that you could go and someone could look down and be like, he's a young whipper snapper.
Right? I mean, [00:01:00] is like, it's amazing how. Many people give their lives to service. Um, in the state of Tennessee,
Jack Johnson: uh, it, it is. And, uh, I, I was 30, I've giving away my age. I was 38 when, when I was, uh, first elected, although I'd been involved in Tennessee politics for, for quite some time. But, uh, you know, you don't know, uh, obviously I made the decision to run for the office and my wife was supportive.
So that was a very important part of the, the contemplation of it. But, um, when I, uh, you know, made the decision to run, I. You don't know what to expect. You think you could, might know and you see it from the outside, but, but I have really, not only, I was already in love with Tennessee, but I've really, um, fallen in love with state government and, um, I know we'll talk a lot about what's going on in the state, but, uh, it's a good place to be and I'm very grateful and honored that the people of Williamson County have, have, have allowed me to serve for that amount of time.
Carli Patton: I imagine a lot of [00:02:00] things have changed, but that a lot of things are still the same. So when you ran for the first time 20 years ago, and you're up for reelection again this summer, right? Yes. In August? Correct. What is different? What is the same? Tell me a little bit.
Jack Johnson: So the biggest thing I could tell you is it's kind of a, a jaw dropping moment is when I first ran there was no social media.
Carli Patton: Yeah.
Spencer Patton: Wow.
Jack Johnson: Think about that. I mean, the evolution of social media, uh, has occurred during the time and, and obviously that has such a tremendous impact on how we communicate, how we get our news, podcasts. Mm-hmm. Things, things like this. And so in, in many good ways. Obviously there's some downsides to, to social media, but I'll never forget when, um, my, uh, assistant at the time, he's now my senior policy advisor, walked in one day and said, we need to sign you up for Facebook.
And I said, what is Facebook? And, [00:03:00] uh, so yeah, that, that's probably been the biggest change. But you're right. The institution, how a bill becomes a law, all of those things remain the same and consistent,
Carli Patton: but campaigning is very different,
Jack Johnson: very different than it was back in 2006. Yeah,
Carli Patton: that makes sense.
Spencer Patton: For those that don't have any familiarity with state government, give just the highlights of a couple features of state government.
How many senators are there? Yeah, how many in the house, just some of the details that someone that maybe isn't from Tennessee or just has never had any opportunity to learn.
Jack Johnson: Sure. So, you know, I, uh, our, our government in Tennessee and in most states is it's, it's very similar to the federal level. Uh, everyone knows who the president is and most people know you have a United States Senate and you have a House of Representatives at Congress, if you will.
Uh, state government is very similar. We have a governor who serves as our chief executive, uh, and then we have a state senate and we have a House of Representatives. Um, it's [00:04:00] called a bicameral legislature because you have two chambers. There's one state that has a unicameral legislature. It's Nebraska, I believe.
I think Nebraska, Kansas, I'm sorry, but, um, but, so yeah, we have, uh, 33 state senators. Uh, the, the Chamber in which I serve, um, the state senate, there's 33 members. Uh, and then the House of Representatives has 99 members. And, um, our districts are based on population. Obviously the United States Senate is two senators per state.
Uh, our, our state senate is, is broken up. So you take 7.3 million people in our wonderful state divided by 33, and that determines the size. It's not geographic, it's by population. And same with the, uh, with the State House. And then the procedures are very similar for a build of criminal law. It has to pass the house, it has to pass the Senate, it goes to the governor.
For a signature becomes law. The governor can veto a bill, and the, obviously the legislature can override that veto. So the processes are, are, are very similar.
Carli Patton: And you, [00:05:00] oh, go ahead.
Spencer Patton: Yeah. And just as a, a wrap, so, and you hold a special seat inside of the Senate, right? A special position of authority?
Jack Johnson: Well, I, I have been elected by my Republican colleagues in the state senate to be the Republican leader of the, of the Senate.
Um, and Republicans are the majority party, so that makes me the majority leader. And again, very similar process at the federal level. Uh. Uh, as a, as a Republican, I'm, I'm proud to say that out of 33 state senators, 27 are Republicans, six are Democrat, uh, in the house, 99 members, 75 Republicans, 24 Democrats.
Uh, but so my caucus, which are the, those 27 Republicans, I'm one of those, uh, we do elect leadership. We elect a speaker of the, of the Senate, and, um, and then we elect a majority leader and a caucus chairman. And so it's a, it's a real honor. I tell people I, I wear two hats. First and foremost, I'm the state senator for Williamson County, the Williams County residents, or my bosses, and I work for them.
[00:06:00] And that's an incredible honor. But, uh, but then I've also been elected to, to be the Republican leader.
Carli Patton: Hmm. And it wasn't like that when you got in, right?
Jack Johnson: No, it wasn't. Um, when, when I was first elected in 2006, um, my very first day of, of session in January of 2007, we had 16 Republicans, 16 Democrats and one Independent.
And Democrats had a, uh, a solid majority in the, in the State House. So very different. So over that period of time that I've had the honor of serving, uh, Tennessee has become a, a much more Republican conservative state than it had been previously. And it, and a little bit of interesting tri as well. It was in January of 2011, and a lot of folks who've moved to Tennessee, and we've got a lot of folks moving here, uh, in January of, of 2011 was the first time since the Civil War that we had a Republican governor, a republican controlled state senate, and a Republican controlled state house.
So [00:07:00] that was just 15 years ago.
Carli Patton: Wow. And you started by saying over your time, you've really fallen in love with state level Yeah. Government, and I think people talk a lot about the federal government, right? It's on all the news channels. I am a firm believer that the most impactful leadership is local leadership.
Absolutely. And when we have nonprofit leaders, faith-based leaders, business leaders, those are the people that are really shepherding our communities and know, Hey, this person needs a meal. Hey, this is happening on this street. Hey, help these people. We saw that in the ice storm, right? Right. We were going street by street, neighbor by neighbor who needs what.
So from your perspective, 'cause you have a statewide perspective. Give us a little color commentary on why state level government is so important. Federal is obviously important. Absolutely. But why you're passionate about this?
Jack Johnson: Well, uh, you could go back to just the, the framers of, of, of our country, and it's certainly changed and evolved and I've got pretty strong feelings about, uh, about that.
[00:08:00] Um, you know, the framers, I believe intended for the federal government to be very small and very limited in scope. And the constitution, our United States constitution is very prescriptive and it lines out very, uh, detailed responsibilities of that federal government and then everything else. Was to be left up to the states and local governments.
Um, and, and local governments are political subdivisions of the state. So cities, counties, school districts mm-hmm. Utility districts, they are created by, um, the general assembly. And so we consider them to somewhat be part of our, our state government 'cause they're created by and accountable to the state.
Now over the last a hundred years or so, uh, we've gotten away from that and our federal government has really grown, I think, far beyond what the framers intended for it to be. And I really have a front row seat. When you look at our roughly $58 billion state budget and as [00:09:00] majority leader, I, I have the honor, I'm the sponsor of the state budget, that the budget is a bill and I'm the sponsor of the Bill and the House Majority leader William Lamberth, who's a great friend.
He is the house sponsor. Yeah, roughly 40% of that budget is federal money. Now, I always pause there and say, federal money is our money. Mm-hmm. It's not, it doesn't belong. No money belongs to government, it belongs to the people. And, um, but, but it is federal pass through dollars that, that, that we as tennesseeans pay to the federal government and then the federal government sends back to us and every single one of those dollars has strings attached to it, whether it's in transportation or education or healthcare.
And that's just the, the way it is. Mm-hmm. And, um. But I don't think that's the way the framers intended for that to be. But I am, as you said, Carly, I am deeply in love with state government. Um, I think we're far more functional. Uh, we actually solve problems. We pass a balanced budget. [00:10:00] When's the last time our federal government passed a budget?
Mm-hmm.
Spencer Patton: Yeah.
Jack Johnson: It's been decades. Decades. And that's why every few months we have these fights over continuing resolutions and so forth. So, and I'm not, I don't wanna pick on the federal government, and I have a lot of really good friends, mutual friends of ours. We have incredible representation in Washington, uh, from, from Tennessee.
And if all members of the United States Senate and the Congress in in Washington were as good as the folks we have elected, we wouldn't have a lot of these problems. So I wanna be very clear about that. But, uh, uh, but, you know, it, it's good, it's things, you know, that the United States Senate was up till the wee hours of the morning last night trying to figure out how to get our, our TSA agents paid.
Mm-hmm. I mean, we have three, four hour waits at airports that is so dysfunctional. But at the state level, again, we pass a balanced budget, we pass legislation, we get things done. I, I've really, I think, been spoiled by the ability to work with my colleagues and even when it wasn't necessarily. [00:11:00] Necessarily Republican super majorities.
Even when we were back there with, with Democrats and, and many of whom are very good friends of mine, we were able to sit down and solve problems. So I'd love to see the federal government get, get smaller and revert things back to states and let states be laboratories of democracy.
Spencer Patton: Hmm. Well said. That's, I really appreciate the ability to take something that is pretty complex and just inaccessible for a lot of people that don't have time to sit down and wade through all that, that that was remarkably understandable and I appreciate that explanation.
So just before we talk about some really fascinating things that are happening in Tennessee, I just want to. Complete an understanding of a little bit more about you and what you maybe did before becoming a public official. And, uh, just what makes Senator Jack Johnson um. [00:12:00] What makes you Jack?
Jack Johnson: Well, I, uh, I was born and raised in Texas, so I'm a, I'm a transplant as well.
Um, I don't really know why, but from a very young age, I had a fascination and a passion for politics and government. I was that nerdy kid who at 13 had a subscription to Newsweek Magazine. Oh
Carli Patton: boy, that's awesome.
Jack Johnson: And, uh, um, uh, they, uh, when I was in college, they called me Alex p Keaton. And so you did they really have to be a little older to remember family ties and,
Carli Patton: oh, no, I
Jack Johnson: watched Family Ties, the, the, the, the great character, you know, Alex p Keaton.
But, uh, but my other passion, interestingly and still is, is music. And, uh, I grew up playing music with my father and, um, you know, had a, had a real passion for that as well. And so. While I was in college in, in Texas and I was playing music and, and loved that, but I was also in student government and, and doing all, all of those types of things.
So when I got outta [00:13:00] college, um, I came home one day and I told my parents, I'm, I'm gonna move to Nashville. And they were mortified. You know, I had no job, I didn't know a soul here, I had no money. Um, and, um, but my dad said, said something, uh, pretty profound. He said, well, if you're gonna make a dumb mistake like that, now's the time to do it.
Like
Carli Patton: a good father.
Jack Johnson: Yeah, like a good father. So you have no kids, no family, no responsibilities. So, so I loaded up everything I owned and, uh, and drove up here and looking back on it, I have kids about the same age I was at that time, and if one of them told me they were gonna do that, I'd have been equally mortified.
But, um, but it worked out. And, um, uh, I was an aspiring guitar player. Um, I got to Nashville and it took somewhere between about 15, 20 minutes and I realized I'm not good enough to be a, uh, a guitar player in Nashville. Um, uh, but still love it. And still love music and still play music. But, um, my dad also gave me good [00:14:00] advice.
He said, you know, don't wake up and be. 30, 35 years old and, and have no career. So, um, I, I met some good folks and started networking and while I was enjoying playing music, um, uh, I got hired by Third National Bank. Uh, uh, some of your viewers might remember Third National Bank, uh, way back when it became SunTrust and is now Truist and all.
But, um, I got hired in the, the wealth Management Division, uh, there, and that ended up being a great, uh, 20 plus year career in, uh, banking and financial management. And, um, and shortly after I moved here, I'd been here for a few months, I got invited to a young Republican meeting, uh, talking with someone about politics and they said, well, you need to come with me to a, to a young Republican meeting.
And I did and, uh, met my wife there. Um, uh, she was the secretary of the Davidson County Young Republicans. And so we started dating and, and one thing led to another. Here we are.
Carli Patton: And now [00:15:00] how many children do you two have?
Jack Johnson: We have three. We have three. Yeah. 22, 24, and 26. Uh, my youngest, uh, graduates in May, so I have written my last college tuition check.
Wow. Where from? Which is uh, which is a, a good thing. I have two uh, graduates from University of Tennessee, Knoxville. The older two have already graduated from ut and my youngest is a senior at MTSU.
Carli Patton: I love talking to people that have spent their life serving the people of Tennessee, especially in politics, because I think a lot of people are afraid to do so.
Jack Johnson: Mm-hmm.
Carli Patton: And I think. You started at 38, you said A lot of people with young families feel like it's so inaccessible. Like, how can I be a dad? How can I provide for my family and how can I show up and serve my community in the way that I want to? So could we talk for just a minute Sure. About that decision that you guys had to make and your kids were young and you had to take this leap of faith.
You're just a musician that does some banking on the side, deciding to come and serve your community. What was that decision process like [00:16:00] for you?
Jack Johnson: Yeah, great question. And when I look back on it, as I said, my wife and I met at a young Republican event and we both had that passion. Um, and, and we would, you know, most people our age in our twenties and who are dating, you know, a Saturday afternoon, you might go to dinner in a movie or something.
We went and knocked doors, you know, we would go, we were always volunteering on some campaign to elect someone for county commission or state representative. And that we loved it and that that was a, a real, uh, joy, uh, doing that. And we won races and we lost races and, but we were fighting. And keep in mind at that time.
We had a Democratic governor, we had two Democrat United States senators. Six of our nine congressional seats were held by Democrats, and Democrats had super majorities in the Tennessee Journal assembly. It was not cool to be a Republican mm-hmm. At, at that time. But we were, and we dreamed of the day when we [00:17:00] might actually win a few seats and might get a narrow majority in the State House or the state Senate.
And, and, uh, and it, it was, it was great. Um, and we, you know, we, we got married, we started a family, and my wife's an attorney. Uh, so she had a, she had a great career. She's now a circuit court judge, uh, here in, in Williamson County. And so she's also an elected official. Um, and people would always ask me, well, Jack, you're probably gonna run for office one day.
And I said, I don't know if, if God puts that in front of me, I'll, I'll, I'll look at it. But I was perfectly happy and content to be. The one trying to get someone else selected. Mm-hmm. And my wife, same thing. And sure it was in the back of my mind, if the right opportunity in the right office and it worked for the family and my career and all these things, I certainly knew enough to know it's a big decision.
Mm-hmm. If, if you're gonna do it. And the other thing is, if, if, um, if you have someone who's doing a good job in a particular [00:18:00] office, you know, they might be there for, for a long time. Um, so when, when the opportunity did present itself, uh, in 2006, my predecessor, um, a great friend, uh, Jim Bryson, um, uh, he ran for governor.
He was unsuccessful, but he vacated the state senate seat that I now hold. And, uh, he's now commissioner of finance and administration, by the way, for Governor Bill Lee and doing an incredible job. Um, so he made the decision to run for governor, which opened up the state, the state senate seat. And so. My wife and I talked about it.
I, she may have mentioned it one time. Do you have any interest in running for that? And it is a level of sacrifice. You know, when you serve in the general assembly, you're. Three and a half to four months out of the year, and we're in that stage right now, it's a more than full-time job. Mm-hmm. Um, now I'm fortunate I'm 30 minutes from the capitol.
Mm-hmm. Uh, but imagine if you live in Bristol, Tennessee. For
Carli Patton: sure.
Spencer Patton: Yeah.
Jack Johnson: And you're five hours away, so you have to travel. On [00:19:00] Sunday night or early Monday morning to be here for session on Monday and all day Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, and you might get home late Thursday night. Mm-hmm. So serving in the general assembly is a unique thing.
It, it, it, there are a lot of people who just can't do it because of their job or their, their career, um, or family situation, whatever. But there's so many other ways to serve, you know, and school board or county commission or city council, um, you know, uh, being active in your rotary club or your Chamber of Commerce or your church, your parent teacher organization.
There's so many ways to serve and that's what I try to tell people is I had no idea I'd run for the state senate. Uh, it's just the opportunity presented itself at the right time, and my wife and I decided it was, it was worth pursuing. Didn't know if I'd I would win, uh, but I did. And it's, it's worked out really, really well.
But we need people to be willing to serve. And I've, I've counseled and talked to many people who [00:20:00] had an interest and give 'em the unvarnished truth about the amount of time it takes and level of sacrifice. And, and again, I can tell you the, the, both the House and the Senate, I'm in the Senate, but it, it is some of the finest people you would ever you would ever meet.
And that's a real reflection in my view, the people of Tennessee, because they're the ones who selected them.
Carli Patton: Mm-hmm.
Spencer Patton: Hmm. So in leading up to this, I always like to ask people, what should I ask Senator Jack Johnson. Right? He's gonna be here. I've got him trapped. Uh, so what can we ask?
Carli Patton: Oh, no.
Spencer Patton: And one of the.
Most fascinating things. That is a hot topic right now, um, is the boring company.
Jack Johnson: Yeah.
Spencer Patton: Okay. So I need you to brace for impact here for a moment. Yeah. Okay. Because we all know that the boring company is a pun in and of itself. Okay. So the only proper way to start off this question about the Boring company is to hit you with a bad one here.
Okay. All right. So, [00:21:00] Senator Jack Johnson, unless someone in our audience has been living under a rock, they have heard about the Boring Project. Oh. So will you please for those that have not heard. Drill down and tunnel us into a place of understanding for what is going on in Middle Tennessee.
Jack Johnson: Very well
Spencer Patton: done.
Was
Carli Patton: that, how long
were you
Carli Patton: sitting on that? I've been waiting
Spencer Patton: all week for
Jack Johnson: this. Incredible Bless. I, I'm gonna bless, steal, bless that. I'm gonna have to use that. Let me drill down on this, on this very hot topic.
Carli Patton: Just don't tell 'em where you got it from.
Jack Johnson: Let's do a deep dive. Let's do really dig on this, uh, for a little bit actually.
Yeah. We've, we've had a lot of fun and, uh, about the na, the name of the company, but here's what I will say is The boring project is anything but boring,
Carli Patton: but imbu
Jack Johnson: it is so incredibly exciting. Um, okay, so, um, the Boring Company, which is a, one of the, the many business interests of Elon Musk, of course. Um, uh, [00:22:00] there is one operational facility that we can look at that exists in America right now, and it's in Las Vegas.
I have been there, I've gotten a behind the scenes tour, I've ridden in a Tesla through the tunnels of Las Vegas. And uh, it is, it is incredible. Uh, you know, one of the biggest challenges we have, and I get asked about all the time is traffic, obviously. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We're one of the most moved to states.
We're growing businesses, wanna be in Tennessee, businesses that are here want to expand and that's great. It's creating incredible economic opportunity, uh, for our residents. And, uh, it's creating tax revenue. So a lot of really, really good. We have one of the strongest economies out of all 50 states. Um, but with that comes a, a strain on your infrastructure.
Mm-hmm. And I can talk. A lot about what we're doing relative to traditional, uh, methods of transportation, roads, and, uh, bridges. The, the Transportation Modernization Act, choice lanes, which are on the way, [00:23:00] uh, how much money we've put in because we do have a deficit, uh, in terms of, uh, funding our road projects.
But we're working on that. A lot of exciting things going on there, but how exciting it is that the boring company knocks on our door and says, we are interested in Tennessee. We like Tennessee, we like the business climate. You're obviously growing. We think it is. There is an economically viable model where our, our project would work there.
And these conversations started months ago, um, back in, in 2025. It was very quiet, very hush hush. I didn't find out that this was even on the table until I think the day before the general public did. And Governor Lee made the announcement on July 28th of last year. Quick funny story. My wife and I last summer had planned a little weekend getaway to Las Vegas.
And, um, and, uh, to go out and see a couple of shows and just a quick [00:24:00] little, you know, three day kind of, kind of getaway. And, uh, and we'd had that on the books for, you know, two or three months, whatever said there was a show she wanted to see and one I wanted to see and I said, okay, yeah, let's just do a little getaway out to Vegas.
About a week before our scheduled trip, the governor makes this announcement. Wow, gosh, that the boring company is, is coming to I'm, your wife was thrilled. And I said, wow, that's, that's amazing. And, and obviously knowing that there's one in Vegas and I said, well, while we're in Vegas we gotta check this out.
And, uh, 'cause I'd, I knew a little bit about it, but obviously I'd never. Used it or, you know, ridden in it or anything. And so, uh, and then the hotel we were staying at in Vegas had a station right outside the front door of the hotel were staying. Oh, no. No.
Carli Patton: Oh. It was meant to
Jack Johnson: be. It was meant to be. So obviously we, uh, we got out there and we bought a ticket and, and, and we got in.
We didn't really need to go [00:25:00] where the tunnel went, but we just wanted to experience it though. So, and they have about, um. I think it's about three or four miles of tunnel that are operational right now, but they're, they're building a lot more. But so boring knocks on our door, says we wanna come to Tennessee.
So they're going to build a facility that's already been contracted. It is underway right now. The machine is digging as we speak through the limestone that's underneath all of our feet. Uh, and we're gonna have the, the first project is, will be, uh, a loop, if you will, from downtown Nashville Music City Center, uh, to the airport.
And uh, and then there'll also be a station near the capitol. So think about that. That run, it's about eight miles. Um, the, not sure when this will air, but literally yesterday, well. Uh, it was announced yesterday the Music City Center Authority, the, the authority for the Convention Center in downtown Nashville unanimously voted to approve the project and to have a station [00:26:00] there at Music City Center.
The Nashville Airport Authority, uh, voted unanimously a few weeks ago to approve a 40 year long-term lease for a station at the airport. So, the way this is going to work, if, if you're coming to Nashville as many do for a bachelor party or a bachelorette party, I should say, or a convention, you'll be able to find a Nashville walk out the front door, on the ground level in that area immediately to the right.
You'll walk over there getting a Tesla and enter the tunnel and come out at Music City Center in about eight minutes. Wow.
Carli Patton: Wow. And what a benefit to the rest of us that are just trying to get along Yeah. And get to and from where we need to go to not have all the tourists try. We want the tourists.
Jack Johnson: Sure.
We
Carli Patton: love it. We want that revenue, but we don't want to drive with them.
Jack Johnson: That's right.
Carli Patton: Yeah.
Jack Johnson: That's right. And, and, and the most important thing about this is, uh, not one dime of expense to Tennessee taxpayers completely privately funded. Uh, now, uh, there's been an arduous, lengthy process of [00:27:00] permitting. You can imagine.
Environmental, structural, uh, right of way easement. This particular loop that the, the first one will basically go under Murfreesboro Road. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, out to the airport. And, um, and, and of course, uh, uh, to downtown. Uh, and we hope it's the first of many. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and so that project is underway. I'm carrying legislation right now that will create a governing authority.
Um, we gave it a. Of, we use a lot of acronyms and government, I don't even remember, but it's basically a subterranean transit authority, um, uh, transportation authority that, that will be the, the governing body for Boeing Company or any other company that might want to come here. Mm-hmm. So, uh, to kind of put a bow on it, and I'm happy to answer any of the questions about it, but, you know, we've had a lot of conversations in Tennessee about mass transit.
Mm-hmm. Public transportation and we have some of that. It's a little fragmented. Um, I think this is [00:28:00] this, this boring project and those that we hope come in the future, it's not going to solve our congestion and traffic issues, but it's certainly gonna help.
Carli Patton: Now just logistically, 'cause I haven't seen the one in Vegas.
Yeah. And I just honestly don't know how it works. So are they driverless Teslas or could somebody. With a Tesla? Are they Ubers? How does that function?
Jack Johnson: Sure. So they, they are not driverless yet, as you know, the technology is, we're not there yet. Not quite there yet. Um, uh, I think long term. That's cool. That could be part of it.
I wrote in my first Waymo the other day.
Carli Patton: Mm-hmm.
Jack Johnson: That was wild. Was it? Yeah. We don't want to get up, but I'm in the backseat of this car and there's no one in the front seat and driving around downtown Nashville.
Carli Patton: I mean, the psychology of it is as much of a, it's, I don't wanna say barrier, but it's as much of a push as it is the tech part.
Right? Exactly. It's like, it's this push pull on both. Okay. So
Jack Johnson: in Vegas right now, they, they, it, it, it, you, you can't drive your [00:29:00] personal car. Okay. In, into it, it is, uh, more of an Uber type model. Okay. In that regard. But it is Teslas, they do have drivers, uh, for now. Um, and that's how it will operate in, in Nashville, uh, at least for the foreseeable future.
But they have a fleet of, of Teslas and the, the. The loop in Vegas, it goes by their massive convention center. It goes to the, um, the Westgate and I at two or three hotels, but they are boring right now. And, and I should have completed this. So my wife and I made that trip to Vegas and we just rode in it and thought, okay, this is really cool.
And they had me back in December, I think, with some executives of the company. And I got to get the full behind the scenes tour and actually got to see some tunnels that are being bored out right now. Uh, and they, they have a, a, um. Uh, a map of up to 68 miles of tunnels, uh, underneath Las Vegas, connecting everything.
So obviously it'll take a little time to build all that out, but [00:30:00] it's, it is very exciting.
Spencer Patton: How does it feel psychologically? Because sometimes when you think about a tunnel, most people are imagining the types of tunnels that they might be in New York or Chicago, and while they're not extremely spacious, like you don't feel claustrophobic in those, right?
Like there's plenty of space. These tunnels are not nearly as wide as what you see in New York and others. And so. What is it like? I haven't been inside of it, but I, I think the, I might get the number wrong, but I think the width of it is like 12 feet, nine feet. Nine, nine feet. Nine. Okay. So, so like,
Carli Patton: just enough to fit a Tesla.
Spencer Patton: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It's not big. That's right. So how do they work with you mentally? Because, you know, is there, are there, are there lights or there screens, or are you just in darkness and a headlight for eight minutes?
Jack Johnson: No, uh, it, it, here's what's really, really fascinating about this is in talking to some of the engineers and, and with the company, uh, out in Vegas, and of course they've been to Nashville [00:31:00] and, and talking about it.
But, uh, the machine, um, that, that the, the casing of the machine that does the digging and the boring is. More than nine feet, of course, because it's the machine inside of that. But it is that, that large cylindrical tube, if you will, that that encases the machine and it, um, it is the largest, um. Piece of metal that, that can be transported on a, on a highway on the back of a truck.
Okay.
Spencer Patton: Wow.
Jack Johnson: And that's what dictates the size. You start with that, and then they've built this machine. Of course, they're constantly refining and, and improving. And they were anxious to get started here. 'cause in Las Vegas, you're boring. It's dirt. Mm-hmm. It's, uh, sand. Uh, I don't, I'm not a geologist, but you know, it's a far different thing.
It's a thing. It's it's a desert. Exactly. And a very high water [00:32:00] table. Um, where here. It's solid limestone rock.
Spencer Patton: Yeah.
Carli Patton: Mm-hmm.
Jack Johnson: Believe it or not, they, um, they opined that, that actually it'll take them longer to bore through the limestone than it does the dirt. But from a structural standpoint, it's actually.
Better.
Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm.
Jack Johnson: Yeah. They call it competent rock because obviously they will still encase it and line it and it'll be, it'll be safe. But to your question, Spencer, I, I didn't know what to, what to think. And my wife and I get in this Tesla, 'cause you're above ground at a, at a station, walk out the hotel. You get in a car and you buy your ticket and you get in the backseat of a Tesla and it zips around and there's this opening and down you go into the tunnel.
And, uh, I told, I leaned over to my wife and I said, I feel a little bit like a geral, but I did not feel claustrophobic at all. It is well lit. Uh, it's actually pretty cool. They have some LED lights going and okay. And, uh, they're green and then they're red and, and, uh, and you're zipping along at, you know, 30 miles an [00:33:00] hour or what, whatever the case might be.
Uh, so I did not feel claustrophobic. My wife didn't either. It is tied. Mm-hmm. But you know, you're zipping along and then you pull into a station and there's escalators that'll take you back up to the surface. And, uh, I felt very, very comfortable in it and long term. Before we move on from this subject, um, I mean, they're planning for, for longer stretches.
Um, even contemplating having a tunnel that would have some pneumatic qualities where they, they reduce the air pressure and create a moderate vacuum. And where these Teslas can go a hundred, 150, 200 miles an hour. Wow. And again, it's a bit futuristic, but imagine you won't go to the UT game in Knoxville.
You don't drive I 40. You go get in a Tesla and you're there in an hour. Mm-hmm.
Carli Patton: I was gonna say because the 65 traffic just even to Williamson County. Sure. And then out to eight 40, I mean go
Spencer Patton: Murphysboro. Yeah.
Carli Patton: A number of ways. Yeah. Clarksville is growing like [00:34:00] crazy. Like if you think about the families that are in Clarksville and our
Spencer Patton: Yeah.
Carli Patton: Wow. That's amazing.
Spencer Patton: Hmm. Well thank you for letting us in on that 'cause that's just really fun to, to. Be in a city that gets chosen because I know
Carli Patton: Yeah.
Spencer Patton: If you've spent any time in Tennessee, there's a reason why no houses have basements here. Mm-hmm. And it's because we're on top of solid. That's right.
Limestone. That's right. And a lot of people moving here are like, why can't I find any house with a basement? Uh, and so to be chosen as a place for tunnels amongst solid. Limestone is, uh, is unique. So, um, leave it to
Carli Patton: Elon.
Spencer Patton: Yeah. And, and for the listeners that haven't, uh, taken a look or Google the drill equipment is so cool.
It is. I mean, it's like, it is, uh, the best toy that you could imagine and just look straight from the future.
Jack Johnson: Yeah. I got to see one right up close and actually see the teeth that, that are digging through the, the stuff. And again, it, it's, it's very, um, you know, when [00:35:00] you think of Elon Musk and, and his success and, um, and, and the way he runs his companies, um, you know, he, he's, he obviously surrounds himself with really, really smart people.
Mm-hmm. Um, um, and, and he lets them. Think outside the box and be creative and, and it's okay if they fail.
Carli Patton: Mm-hmm.
Jack Johnson: Keep trying.
Spencer Patton: Yeah. So we'll stay just in the theme of transportation. I mean, that's Carly and i's heart language anyway. It's what we've done our entire career. So let's go into the, uh, aptly named Choice Lanes.
Yeah. Uh, I knew from when this was first announced that there was, uh, intense debate that we're gonna call it choice lanes. These are not tolls. That's right. These are not, uh, other pejorative terms that other states may have. These are choice lanes. Uh, and so most people though, I think listening still have no clue honestly what it is.
Um, so, uh, can you just give us a little bit [00:36:00] of history. Uh, and then where we're going with this.
Jack Johnson: Sure. So, um, obviously in state government, we look to other states frequently for things that they've done, learned from their mistakes. Um, our governor, uh, bill Lee has been very active in the Republican Governor's Association and the National Governor's Association, and has made a lot of friends with, with other governors, and learned a lot.
So when you think about more traditional. Transportation, interstate highways, major thorough affairs. Obviously we, we are, uh, at and above capacity and, and, and have, uh, some, some gridlock in, in Middle Tennessee, but, but really, uh, in other parts of the state as well. So, something that other states have done is to form a public private partnership with an outside entity.
And there are companies that do this. It's what they specialize in, and they will come in and add capacity to, um, an interstate is most likely, um, uh, facility where this would work. [00:37:00] They will come in and pay to add capacity. So the, the most likely, uh, first choice lane that we will unveil in Tennessee is probably going to be, and I don't want to get ahead of our Department of Transportation folks, but uh, I think we would all agree for those in Middle Tennessee, that the I 24 corridor from Nashville down to Murfreesboro.
Is the most Yep. Most brutal suggested.
Spencer Patton: Yep.
Jack Johnson: And, uh, so that's where this type of a project, that's a good example. You know, to add one lane each way on I 24 from Nashville down to, to Murfreesboro would be massively expensive. I've heard 2 billion, I've heard 3 billion, uh, really, really big, big numbers.
Mm-hmm. But yet there are companies that will come in and build that capacity. They know how to do it. They're, they're very good at it, and they can get it done quickly and in exchange for a long-term, 40 year, 50 year lease. On that facility, [00:38:00] and then they're allowed to monetize it. And, and you're right, there's a very important distinction between say, a toll road and a choice lane.
A toll road would be, and we don't have those in Tennessee, and there's no, uh, discussion of, of having toll roads in Tennessee at this time. That would be where you go out and build a road that does not exist. Mm-hmm. But you build a connector, uh, from one point to another where there's nothing there now, and you charge people to use it, uh, that's a toll road.
Um, a choice lane is where you're adding capacity to an existing facility and, uh, through this public-private partnership, allowing that in entity to monetize it. And so if you're traveling. From Nashville to Murfreesboro and you're late for a meeting and you're, uh, there's a wreck or the traffic's backed up.
We've all experienced that. Uh, now you, you don't really have an option. You have to sit there or get your map out and see if you can get off the interstate and find another way. [00:39:00] A choice lane would be a lane that is there, that you have the option to use. And if you're stuck in that traffic jam and you see the choice lane over there and they're zipping along at 70 miles an hour and there's a sign there and says, $5, you can make a choice.
Is it worth $5 for you to be able to get in that lane and get to where you need to be? If not, you're not in any hurry. You can stay in, in the, in the what is already there in terms of capacity. That's. Kind of a simplistic definition, but that's, that's the idea of a choice lane. So we have authorized choice lanes in Tennessee.
I sponsored that legislation three years ago. And, uh, we're very close, I think, to, to announcing a, a Choice Lane project. And, uh, I'm very supportive of it. Um, uh, any choice Lane, uh, will be additional capacity and it's really important 'cause there are some accusations we're gonna start charging people to use the interstates.
Mm-hmm. No. If there is a lane, if there's a [00:40:00] square inch of asphalt on the ground right now, uh, that you can drive on. At no, no additional charge. You're already paying gas tax to maintain that. Mm-hmm. But you will continue to be, you'll be able to continue doing that with no additional charge. But if we add additional capacity, that additional lane and allow that to be monetized, um, then we can get capacity done without having to use taxpayer dollars.
And again, Tennesseeans will be able to make a decision whether they wanna use it or not.
Carli Patton: Well, we lived in Chicago, land out of grad school, and I know what a toll road is. I'm, I am still think I have credit in my account for that toll road that I cannot figure out how to exact that exact back out of the Illinois state government.
So I can tell the difference now as I put on my mom hat. Mm-hmm. Like we go to tennis tournaments in Murfreesboro all the time. We're running late for a match. The kids like couldn't get their shoes on. I can't get 'em in the back of the van. And I, so what is the infrastructure like? Like is, [00:41:00] do you have to think ahead or is it really like, I'm running late, I can pivot into this lane?
Is it simple or is that still to be determined how all of that
Jack Johnson: works? Yeah, so that's the thing about these companies who do this and that is their expertise. And I, I think the best way I could answer it is it depends on the facility. Sure. We'll stick with I 24. Uh, those in Middle Tennessee are familiar with it.
Um, I think what you would probably expect to see is that the choice lane would, would originate somewhere fairly close to the inter loop mm-hmm. Of, of Nashville and there, but there would be points of, uh, uh, uh, opportunities to get off of that. Mm-hmm. In, at Bell Road, around Hickory Hollow, and then probably Laverne, and then Smyrna.
And then Murfreesboro. Similarly, if you're getting on to the interstate, heading to Nashville or the other, then there would be points at which you could get on and off. Um. That's the, that's something that the, the people who design and build those things, obviously they wanna make it [00:42:00] as user-friendly and be able to get as much, uh, traffic on there as, as, uh, in terms of people that want to use it.
So, uh, but you're right, and, and we toured, uh, the governor had us traveled to Texas. My home state, uh, the, the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex, uh, is a really good example. They've, they've been using these. Um, these, uh, choice lanes and they do have to legitimate toll roads in Texas as well, but we went and toured the, the choice lanes and how they work and, and actually have learned from some of their mistakes, I think too with some of the TDOT people, their Department of Transportation.
So it's, it's an exciting thing. And again, we'll free up dollars, um, that we can go and use in other parts of the state where that's not going to make sense. Um, uh, and so it, it's a win-win all the way around.
Spencer Patton: Hmm. Senator, I really appreciate the public private component to this. Mm-hmm. And uh, for those not familiar with it, just the concept of [00:43:00] having private companies that are for profit, they have a significant incentive to be on time and on budget.
Absolutely. And there's real accountability there. I really love that Tennessee is leaning into the utilization mm-hmm. Of a public private partnership. And there's so many other opportunities to do that. 'cause I, I feel like just as a regular US citizen. The automatic assumption is that if the government is doing the job, whether it is federal or state or anywhere else, the cost is gonna be five times as much and four times as long and it's not gonna be very good.
And, and I'm not trying to say that that would be a Tennessee project, but Heavens knows there have been projects that have turned out that way. And so I just really appreciate that. 'cause you told us before the state's budget at $58 billion, in order to do that expansion just to [00:44:00] Murfreesboro would be two or $3 billion.
That's, and that's what the budget is, which, you know, that's like 6% Yeah. Of the standard
Jack Johnson: perspective.
Spencer Patton: Annual budget.
Jack Johnson: That's right.
Spencer Patton: Uh, and so now that gets to go to other places that. Um, uh, so I, I, I have two different questions that, that I want to, that I want to ask just simultaneously, and you can take 'em in, in whatever, uh, whatever order that you want.
Um, first, if there was another opportunity for public private partnership, what's the first thing that comes to your mind? Uh, any type of problem that exists in Tennessee. That's one distinct question. Um, and then secondly, I I want to ask you for those that opposed the choice lanes and said, this is terrible, vote it down, don't do this.
What was the leading argument in opposition to it? And I, I, I hate to ask you to articulate your oppositions arguments. No, no, absolutely. But I, I do think the inner debater in me appreciates those. So you can take those two in whatever order
Jack Johnson: you, yeah. Well, I'll [00:45:00] do the second one first. Um, people who express concerns or oppose the, the choice lane, uh, idea.
Um, well, there's some. I, I would say conspiracy theorists kind of things. We're giving up our roadways, we're selling our roadways and Okay. And those are not factual arguments. Mm-hmm. Okay. And that's something I in politics have to deal with a lot, is people call or wanna meet and have coffee to talk about an issue and they've developed their opposition on misinformation.
Spencer Patton: Okay?
Jack Johnson: Mm-hmm. And so you have to kind of deconstruct that and say, well, the premise upon which you've based your opinion is faulty. And, um, we are not selling our, our roads, we own them. We will own the choice lane. Mm-hmm. A private company will come in and invest the money and then in exchange for a lease, a long-term lease.
But we own it. Well, what if they go out of business? What. Well then we got a $3 billion addition to our interstate [00:46:00] system and they walked away. Well, Tennessee's gonna be on the hook. No, it is private investment. These companies go out and raise money through investors. Um, and that money is used, not one taxpayer dollar is, is used.
So, um, those were, were some of the, some of the arguments and some of it was just an over, they moved here from Illinois mm-hmm. Or California, or a place where there were lots of toll roads and, and they felt like you couldn't even get from point A to point B without having to pay a toll. And, and I get it.
I, I understand that. This is not what that is. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, so we ended up passing it over overwhelmingly, uh, the first part of your, your question. I agree completely and, and think about it. Um, if we're building, uh, a new, um, science building at the University of Tennessee that we're gonna pay for, are those state employees that are out there pouring the concrete and putting up the steel?
Well, of course not. Mm-hmm. No. We hire a, a, a [00:47:00] contractor who has expertise and, and we put it out for bid. There's a whole procurement process and people have to have certain, you know, um, um, skill sets and, and, and demonstrate that they're capable of doing that. Um, you know, healthcare, we, we, uh, we consume a lot of healthcare between the state insurance plan and our 10 care program, which is our Medicaid program.
It's over 25% of, of the, the, the healthcare delivery of our state. But the doctors, you go and see that we're paying to treat you are not state employees. Yeah. That's a public private partnership, right? Mm-hmm. So in terms of when and, and it's actually happening right now, and I don't know that this is a great example, but it's very top of mind.
Something I'm very passionate about and that is school choice. Um, you know, one of the constitutional responsibilities we have, we take very seriously is to see that every child has access to a quality education. And, and that works really well [00:48:00] and, and through a traditional public school system here in Williams County that I represent.
We have two school systems and they're amazing Williams County schools and then the Franklin Special School District. But I've meet with families that are in Memphis and Shelby County, and their kids are not being served by that school system. There, uh, it's a 19% reading proficiency rate. Mm-hmm. 19. 19.
Mm-hmm. And we're spending almost $2 billion sending down to that. Why should those families not be able to take a scholarship, the money that we would otherwise appropriate at the state level to educate their child and use a private option. And, and we're doing that in Tennessee and I'm very grateful to Governor Lee.
And, and, uh, we passed that last year. Uh, we're, we're hoping to expand it this year. And, and tens of thousands of, of kids are getting an opportunity to get a quality education. So, um, that's somewhat, I think, uh, answers the, the question there again, we're, we've got a. A public school system that we run in partnership with our local school boards, and we [00:49:00] want that to be the best it can be.
And it works really well in Williams County and, and many other parts of the state. But when a parent says that that option is not the right fit for my child, then they should have an opportunity to get a scholarship from the money we would otherwise spend to send their kids to that public school that is not serving their needs and let that parent pick a different option.
So somewhat of a public private analogy there perhaps,
Spencer Patton: and, and to bring it home, if you're in a part of Tennessee where there really is no private option, there could be an entrepreneurial opportunity there. Absolutely. There could. And, and that could be the public private partnership piece to where
Jack Johnson: Sure.
Spencer Patton: Okay. I'm not happy with what's going on here with my schools, so. I'm going to create Sure. Or CA community to create some type of alternative.
Jack Johnson: And I'll inject one more in there. That's another good example. Charter schools.
Spencer Patton: Yeah,
Jack Johnson: charter schools. We have some outstanding charter schools in, in certain parts of our state that are run and operated by nonprofit, but it's [00:50:00] still private sector and yet they're, they're part of the public school system.
It's a public private partnership that's, that's providing, you know, a different option for those kids.
Carli Patton: Senator, you bring up school choice and it's, as we travel the state and we go to all these different things, I have never met something so polarizing. I mean, you meet people that want to die on the hill for school choice and then the people that wanna come against it so hard.
In my heart of hearts, I know that we all want the same thing. Like we have spent so many hours on the show talking about literacy. Literacy is the thing that pricks my heart. It's the thing that we know absolutely what to do about that for some reason is just not getting done. And so I don't understand why so many people with hearts of gold that care so much for our youth disagree so vehemently on this issue.
So can you help me break down why the people that hate school choice hate it? Yeah. And why, as you said before, from your point of view, you would say maybe they have a premise that you just don't agree with. Sure. Um, but [00:51:00] I'd like to break that down 'cause I really. Want people to understand the issue.
Jack Johnson: Absolutely. Well, I, for many, I think it comes from a really good place. Yeah. And I'm glad you, you structured the, the, the question the way you did. I, I, we do want the same thing. Um, I, I don't know many people out there who, who are gonna make an argument that a kid should not have an opportunity for a great education.
Exactly. Yeah. Oh, right. So let's, let's start there. That we we're all in agreement, uh, with, with that, we have just under 1 million kids in the state of Tennessee right now that attend public school. Uh, and again, that's a, that's a public school system that the state runs in partnership with local school boards.
The state created local school boards to administer and run the day to day in various communities, because that's gonna look different in Hancock County Sure. Than it does in Williamson County or Davidson County. And that's been our system for over a hundred years or roughly. Um, I think. Uh, one of the concerns that some people [00:52:00] have about school choice is that, that somehow it is going to harm the public education system that, that we have.
And again, that's where the vast majority of kids go. I think there's roughly 150,000 kids in the state of Tennessee who attend some type of private school. We have a great thriving homeschool community. Mm-hmm. Um. In Tennessee. Um, but the vast, vast majority of our kids attend a public school system. And anytime I'm talking about school choice, I, I really emphasize how passionate I am and my colleagues are about making that public school system as good as it can be.
And we have appropriated billions of additional dollars. We've raised the minimum starting teacher salary in Tennessee from 35,000 to 50,000 that goes into effect with this budget. Governor Lee was, was intent on doing that. We focused on literacy, third grade literacy, and it's working. We're seeing great results.
All three of my kids attended Williams County Public Schools. We are, my wife and I attended public schools. Mm-hmm. Um, we, and, and so [00:53:00] I think sometimes the knee jerk reaction is when you start talking about, no, we want to give a parent a different option. Mm-hmm. That somehow that child being pulled out of the public school system is going to hurt.
The school system will, our charge is not to protect a school system. Our charge is to make sure children are educated and the ultimate determiner of that should be the parent. Mm-hmm. Not a school board member, not a state senator. Mm-hmm. Not a teacher, not a principal. Parents should decide what's best for their kid and for the vast majority, that's gonna be the public school down the street that they're zoned for.
And you know, my wife and I were very involved in our kids' schools and, and, and many parents are. And that's a great thing. So you have to say you can be pro school choice and pro-public education. Mm-hmm. And I am, uh, as a huge champion and proponent for school choice. Um, uh, I've also been one of the [00:54:00] strongest advocates for, for our public education system, so.
But, and we put things in the legislation. We put a funding floor in there that if, if a district loses population, none really are, because we're a growing state. Mm-hmm. 90 of our 95 counties are, are growing in population. So our school systems are growing. So if you have a handful of, of families that decide to use the scholarship option and pull their kid out and put 'em into a private school, then, um, you're, you're gonna more than compensate for that with organic growth in your system.
So I, I am. Convinced that not a single public school or public school system in the state of Tennessee is going to be harmed by a, a, a parent deciding that a Christian school is a better fit. Or maybe they have a unique learning need. Maybe it's a bullying situation. Maybe it's that that school is teaching some things that don't necessarily fit your value system.
Mm-hmm. And we've had, we've seen that, we've had reports of that, but, um. But if you poll it, and [00:55:00] I don't make decisions based on polling, but it, it is anecdotal or it's interesting to look at, uh, the vast majority of Tennesseans support a parent's right to choose the educational option that they deem appropriate for their, for their, for their child.
It's a long rambling answer, but, and the final thing I'll say, you say, well, they can send their kid to a private school. Yeah. Well, that single mom who's working three jobs in Memphis and, and is her, her kid is zoned to a failing school that's got violence and bullying and, and all kinds of things. And you know, she loves her kid just as much as we love ours.
And if she can't afford it, the state should make a scholarship available to her to be able to put her kid in a different school. If, if the parent feels it's the best thing,
Carli Patton: I also have heard thrown around a lot, well then just homeschool your kid. Mm-hmm. If you don't like the options available to you.
But that same situation with a mom. I have a lot of friends that homeschool and do it really, really well. Absolutely.
Jack Johnson: I do too.
Carli Patton: I learned during COVID that I am not a homeschool parent. [00:56:00] It's just like not in the best interest of our family or of my children's literacy. But not everyone can homeschool.
That's right. And there are a lot of people that actually wish they could, that that is not a privilege that they have. And so just kind of throwing out platitudes, well, you should do this, or sacrifice enough for that. And
Jack Johnson: why should that other person tell a parent what they ought to do with their kid?
Yeah. That's, that's the fundamental question. And, and for some, um, in, in this debate about, uh, school choice, it's a no-brainer to me. Sure. I mean, my mind is made up and it has been for a long time. Uh, my wife and I could have sent our kids to private school. Mm-hmm. We could have homeschooled. No. We decided the best fit for our kid was the public school we were zoned for.
And that's where we chose to, to send our kids to school. And they got a great education, but not all parents are are gonna be fit. So when the argument goes to, well, you should do this or you should do that. How about you? You do what you want to with your kids. I'm this child's parent. I'm gonna do what I think [00:57:00] is best.
So, uh, it's about choice. It's about parental choice and, uh, no one's gonna love a kid more than their mom and dad. And so they should be able to make those decisions.
Carli Patton: Hmm. And just to put a bow on this issue, I think people think it's a different program than it is actually by the numbers. So could you speak a little bit to the numbers for my logistics husband here too, and the brains like him.
It's like how many families, what counties, because I think people are. Addressing this with an overwhelming swath of like, oh, rich people are just gonna use this money to send their kids to the school, and it's not actually gonna serve the people it's supposed to serve. Sure. So I think just a little talk about the numbers and then we can move on.
Sure. Would be helpful.
Jack Johnson: So with the first legislation we passed, we created, last year we created 20,000 scholarships.
Carli Patton: Mm-hmm.
Jack Johnson: And what we did is we, out
Carli Patton: of a million kids.
Jack Johnson: Out of a million kids, yeah, that's right. So 2%. Yeah. Um, and what we did is we took the average of the state appropriation educated child.
Mm-hmm. The funding of our public education system, the state puts [00:58:00] in a certain amount of money. On average, it's about two thirds of the money that that's used to pay for the education of a child in the public school system. The other third average. It, it at Williamson County, it's a different conversation, but gets a really raw deal in our, in our funding formula.
But the average statewide, about a third comes from the local government. Mm-hmm. The local county commission. So what we did is we're not gonna touch the, the local money that's, that's generated and assessed at the local level, uh, for the Education Freedom Scholarship program, but the state it, it comes to about $7,300.
And so we created 20,000 scholarships at roughly $7,300 a piece. Uh, in, in the first 24 hours that the application process was open for the legislation we passed, we had 38,000 applications. Yeah. For 20,000 spots in the first 24 hours. Um, so what Governor Lee has proposed, and I'm sponsoring and I very, very much support is to double that from 20,000 to [00:59:00] 40,000.
Um, now keep in mind we spend billions and billions of dollars on our traditional public education system, and I'm supportive of that and we've increased it significantly over the last 10 years. Um, and we will continue to do so in this budget alone. Governor's proposed an additional $339 million for public education and, uh, and we're gonna fund that.
Carli Patton: That's great.
Spencer Patton: Senator, thank you for having a really wide range of topics to explain. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, we've covered a lot of ground of complex issues and to be able to talk through both sides of it is just a huge part of what is missing in the broader political discourse. So I just really appreciate the spirit that you've brought today to, to be able to, um, teach, uh, and uh, help.
A lot of people understand, uh, where you come from, uh, on these different topics. So, um, the way that we land each [01:00:00] podcast, uh, is I have a couple, uh, fill in the blank Okay. Uh, sentences. Uh, so you can fill it in with a, a word or a short phrase that, uh, you think completes the thought. Um, if you'll just repeat the prompt back to me.
Jack Johnson: Okay.
Spencer Patton: Uh, and then, uh, uh, the blank at the end. Um, I'll, uh, go through these. Okay. Okay. All right. Number one, the biggest misconception people have about how the Tennessee legislature works is blank.
Jack Johnson: Wow. The biggest misconception that people have about how the Tennessee legislature works, um, is that we are influenced by special interest or.
Outside money. Um, I hear that a lot. And it couldn't be more, it couldn't be farther from the truth. Uh, the men and women I serve with in the journal assembly, they care deeply about the people they represent. And so this, when I hear, oh, special interest, this or that, [01:01:00] now we, we serve the people that elect us.
Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm. Um, Senator, I know that you're a pilot. So for this question, when I'm flying over Middle Tennessee and see all the construction cranes, what strikes me most is blank.
Jack Johnson: When I'm flying over Middle Tennessee and I see all those homes and the construction cranes, I think we've gotta get those choice lanes done and get the boring tunnel done.
Spencer Patton: That's right. Mm-hmm. Um, and then the last one, after 20 years in the Senate, the one piece of advice I'd give to someone. Is blank.
Jack Johnson: Um, after 20 years serving in the Tennessee State Senate, uh, the piece of advice I would give to all my fellow Tennesseans is find a way to serve. Okay. Find a way to serve that, that that fits you and your personality.
It doesn't mean necessarily running for office. Uh, it could be being an elder at your [01:02:00] church. Mm-hmm. It could be being on the school board. It could be being president of your local Lions club or Rotary Club. Find a way to give back to your community. It's one of the things I think we do really well in Tennessee, specifically an area I represent, and it's what makes our place, our, the place we call home so incredibly special.
Spencer Patton: Hmm. Well, Senator Johnson, thank you for the time today. Uh, you are Carly and I representative. Yes, I'm honored, uh, which we, uh, significantly and greatly appreciate that. Uh, I reflect on the question that Carly asked earlier about the sacrifice that it takes to be able to hold your seat, and especially as majority leader, is that, uh, whether you come out and directly say it or not.
You've missed a lot of dinners with family and lunches and school plays and sporting events. I know it 'cause I've seen you speak at a lot of places and those [01:03:00] sacrifices are real. But you've done it for your state and you've made a huge impact. Uh, and your fingerprint has, uh. Been clearly left, uh, in a way that, uh, you hopefully have a lot more ahead to be able to do.
And it speaks a lot that your colleagues have recognized you, uh, as worthy of leading a group of very opinionated people. Uh, so, uh, that is, uh, probably both a blessing. And sometimes you look in the mirror and say, why have I, why this Lord? Why was I chosen? Yes. Yes. So, uh, thank you for joining us today. Uh, we are so excited to, uh, be, uh, one of many that, uh, we'll be eager to see you reelected.
Oh, thank you. Uh, here in a few short months.
Jack Johnson: Well, thank y'all for having me. This has been incredible and, uh, it's an honor to honor to serve you and, uh, all the people that I have the honor of representing. So I'm very grateful for you having [01:04:00] me today.
Carli Patton: Thank you.
Spencer Patton: Thank you.
Senator Jack Johnson, the majority leader for the Tennessee legislature. A really amazing opportunity to once again hear from someone that has the heart of an educator.
Jack Johnson: Mm-hmm.
Spencer Patton: And this is a theme we see again and again amongst the best of our guests, is that they can teach to people that don't come from their area of specialty.
Carli Patton: Mm-hmm.
Spencer Patton: And it's not unlike a doctor that they could use every long word and terminology and you'd leave that room having no better idea than when you walked into it. And Senator Johnson really was able to articulate whether you agree or not, with different positions why, and the heart [01:05:00] behind it. Mm-hmm.
I felt like that really shined through for him.
Carli Patton: I think he did a really good job of taking the emotion out of things that have made people really emotional. So Elon Musk, I mean, people are like digging Tesla logos off their vehicles so that they aren't affiliated with him. Right. Or tolls. Like all that does is give you a tolling headache is to think about a toll road.
And he's very careful say, this isn't a toll road. It's a choice. A choice lane and school choice, we know has caused a lot of uproar in our state. And I think he's taken these really emotional topics, these hot button issues and just been like, Hey, here are the facts. Mm-hmm. And a lot of disagreements start with misinformation.
And one of the things I really appreciated was on the way out when he was shaking our hand as he was like, I love this long format because it's the antidote. To misinformation. Now, you may not agree with his stance on things, you may not agree with our stance, but the value of bringing a longer answer that doesn't fit in a tweet or an ex [01:06:00] post is really important because at least you understand the specifics of why decisions are being made and then refute them from the facts.
Um, but I really appreciated him not showing emotion while still showing a compassionate and a care for the citizens of Tennessee and what he was trying to achieve.
Spencer Patton: What a fun seat to occupy as senator for Williamson County.
Carli Patton: Mm-hmm.
Spencer Patton: That there has been a lot of change across the state of Tennessee, but amongst Williamson County and Davidson County, but Williamson that he represents.
I mean, it is the epicenter of massive traffic shifts and population. Changes and growth and the complexity between how much growth do we want versus how much do we want it to feel? A little bit how Tennessee felt in 2006. Mm-hmm. When he was elected. So being at the middle of those places of [01:07:00] friction are, I feel like unique challenges for him that you could see he's enjoyed
Carli Patton: well, and while his kids are at home.
I mean, he started at 38, right? And so if you think about it. His kids are in their twenties. They were little bitty when 20 years ago, you know, they're just now graduating from college. That decision, and I was having a conversation with a friend the other day. I have this like armchair expert view that every couple has a superpower.
God takes the gifts and talents of both members of a couple, brings 'em together and there's a superpower to them. And if you get to know your friends and think about it, it's like you'll see these overlappings that certain couples are just great at certain things. And it sounds like he has a real partner in his wife and she's an elected official also.
They are, marriage was built mm-hmm. On public service. And so they kind of have this superpower of, hey, this is what we were called to do as a unit. [01:08:00] Um, and it seems like they never looked back. And I love that upon leaving, he was saying, my advice to anyone would be find the place that you can serve.
Maybe you're a couple superpower or your single is not. Public service, but it could be in a church, it could be feeding someone, it could be literacy programs. It all of us are supposed to do something. And I love that he wasn't on a high horse like everyone should try to be in my legislation and come work for me.
No. It's like he was called to that place for this time, for a time such as this. But each of us has that calling on our life right where we sit.
