Laura Scoggins and Jenny Haines Douglas on Nashville Real Estate
This week, Carli and I had the opportunity to sit down with Laura Scoggins, a realtor at Benchmark Realty, and Jenny Haines Douglas, a senior loan officer at Movement Mortgage. We explored the current real estate market in Middle Tennessee, discussing strategies for home buying, the impact of economic trends, and the real stories of individuals making a difference.
About Laura Scoggins and Jenny Haines Douglas
Laura Scoggins, a Nashville native, brings local expertise to her role as a realtor with Benchmark Realty, serving clients across the Nashville area. She offers valuable insight into the city’s neighborhoods, market trends, and opportunities, ensuring her clients are well-equipped to navigate this rapidly growing market. Operating primarily out of Johnson City, Tennessee, Jenny Haines Douglas is a Senior Loan Officer at Movement Mortgage, specializing in a wide range of loan options, including 100% financing, to make homeownership more accessible.
With Nashville’s home prices surging by more than 53% in just the past five years, working with someone who understands the local market is more important than ever. In 2023, 28% of Tennessee households were considered cost-burdened, spending more than 30% of their income on housing. With their dedication to educating clients, Jenny and Laura help them make the best financial decisions, giving them the tools they need to succeed in the current market.
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[00:00:00] Spencer: Welcome to Signature Required. It is intended for Tennesseans by Tennesseans.
[00:00:06] Carli: What makes them tip, what lights they're fired. We're
[00:00:09] Spencer: pulling forward people that unless you listen to this interview, you might not know a thing about 'em. The heart of a Tennessean, the volunteer state is serve and we. Do so largely without self-promotion.
[00:00:24] Carli: And these are genuine people that get up every day and want to make art or want to educate the nations, or want to have a heart of love in a way that makes a difference.
[00:00:35] Spencer: Learn from 50 years of experience, take a nugget away and then go share it with a friend.
[00:00:45] Spencer: Laura Scoggins, a real estate agent with Benchmark Realty and Jenny Haines Douglas Senior Loan Officer of Movement Mortgage. Welcome to Signature Required. We're excited to have you all.
[00:00:55] Jenny: Thank you so much. We're excited to be here. Excited to be here. Yes, thank you.
[00:00:59] Spencer: [00:01:00] We could take this topic in a really generic, boring direction, which would be what everybody wants, right?
[00:01:07] Spencer: Yeah. Yeah. You know, housing prices are up and interest rates are up, and it's tough in Tennessee, and all of those things are true. They're also really well established. So. What I really hope to be able to do for our listeners in this podcast is to address and set the baseline for some things that are going on in the real estate industry, right?
[00:01:29] Spencer: Like, we'll spend a brief period of time probably telling most people a little bit of what they know. But where I hope to take for this is some strategy of saying, okay, that's, you know, economics 100, but. Each of you have a lot of experience and a lot of wisdom in this space, and have seen trends happen and develop over time.
[00:01:51] Spencer: And so what I really hope is that our listeners, by the end will be able to say, oh, okay. I know that was the case, but I learned something today that I [00:02:00] didn't know before. And so I'm really excited to have, both of you. Be able to talk from from your experience. So, let's just take it from the top of what is the state of real estate in middle Tennessee as a whole.
[00:02:14] Spencer: Whatever direction you wanna start at. Either one of you can kick that one off. Yeah,
[00:02:19] Laura: you go ahead. So, okay. I would say that we still have a healthy real estate market. We've seen some declines over the last year. 2024 was a challenge, but 2025 has really started to tick up starting in January.
[00:02:34] Laura: So,
[00:02:34] Jenny: and I think though, I mean, it's not that it's in a bad place because it's just not so. In so much increasing, right? So it's not going up as quickly as it has been over the past couple years since the pandemic. So it's kind of slowing back down to be, I think, more of a normal market.
[00:02:50] Jenny: It's normalizing. Yeah. I would like, I think that, so, yeah. Yeah.
[00:02:54] Spencer: If you zoom out to. Maybe the highest vantage point and say, [00:03:00] look at the last 20 years. Okay. And say, all right. 2008 was the low point of pretty much everything economically, cyclically housing market. Tennessee did way better than most every state.
[00:03:18] Spencer: By any measurement. Yeah, because a lot of people were moving here. So maybe let's just start and look at the last 20 years worth of time, has Tennessee benefited equally from that? What are the trends that you're seeing? Who's coming here? Why are they coming here and what parts of the state are being impacted by that?
[00:03:40] Laura: So 2008, we were pretty lucky. We did just see more of a leveling out of home prices instead of a dip. Now, if you had to sell in that time, you know, you, you kind of got hit. You felt it. Yeah. Yeah. But if you could hold onto it for a couple years, you really didn't feel a pinch.
[00:03:54] Jenny: And my perspective from people with interest rates and things, people that were foreclosing and the [00:04:00] reason why the housing market crashed was because they couldn't get out of the loans that they were put in two and three years before that.
[00:04:05] Jenny: So that really led to the decline in prices. I. But now I don't feel like it's anything like that. I think that after 2008, 2009, when the rates started to kind of, you know, at that time, rates were at six, seven, 8%. Then they started coming down to like the fours and the fives, and then we were pretty stable and the market just kind of evened out.
[00:04:27] Jenny: And then you had that big increase back in, I think it was 2021 was really when it started, the beginning of 21, where the prices went up and appreciation went so far up that. You know, and people were coming in from all over. So you have a lot of people moving from California Illinois, in Florida, even the, I think the largest was Illinois.
[00:04:47] Jenny: With the percentage of people coming, which is funny. I see a lot of people from California. Mainly for me. And I feel like the companies that are here just everything that we've got going in Middle Tennessee and in Tennessee [00:05:00] as a whole are why people are ca called here. You know, it's a beautiful state, has all the seasons.
[00:05:05] Jenny: I think that's important. I.
[00:05:06] Laura: We have such a broad economy here in Nashville too that, you know, it's not, I know a lot of people think of us as Music City, but we have such a broad, you know, we've got healthcare, we've got so many companies moving here every day, so I think that's bringing a lot of people here.
[00:05:19] Laura: I also hear from clients that it's lower taxes. Why lower taxes and politics?
[00:05:26] Carli: I guess that's. My question, you helped specifically relocate one of our team members here from Yes, Indiana, almost that Illinois area, on the border.
[00:05:36] Carli: And the most important thing is trying to be near schools. And trying to be near a target, trying to be in these spaces where you can get groceries for your kids. You can make the pickup line, but you can also get to work. And so as we have done our own research about housing, the number of families, I just think this.
[00:05:51] Carli: Stat is really important. In 2023, approximately 28% of Tennessee households were considered cost burdened, [00:06:00] which means they were spending more than 30% of their income on housing, and that included renters and homeowners. With a mortgage. So as you're helping families move into the market and trying to hit these checklists of, I gotta be buying in and out Burger, I gotta be able to get a go to target in the pickup line, what should families be looking for to be able to be where they need to be, where they want to be, to keep that work life balance?
[00:06:24] Laura: Yeah. I think that they have to have an open mind. In this market and they have to, you know, you have to give at some point. So either you've gotta give on location and go a little bit further out to find the home that you're looking for. Or if it's really location that you're after, like your employee, then you've gotta maybe give a little bit on your expectations with your home that you're going to buy.
[00:06:46] Laura: But I think first and foremost, you have to talk numbers with somebody and really get comfortable with your payment. Before we talk about home pricing. Yeah,
[00:06:55] Jenny: definitely. 'cause that's the biggest part. It, everybody's so driven to say, what is your rate? What is your [00:07:00] rate? But it really comes down to what are the monthly expenses that this house is gonna have?
[00:07:03] Jenny: Is it gonna have an homeowner's association fee that's gonna add to the monthly cost? You know, what are the down payment options? Are we putting money down? Are we, you know, doing a hundred percent financing? What does that monthly expense look like? So that's where I like to start with people. Well, with what I do is like, let's talk about what your goals are monthly, financially, and then we kind of back into the numbers that way.
[00:07:24] Spencer: I think it's interesting that for decades and decades, American culture has been centered around home ownership. That you own your home. Yeah. And the moment that you own your home is a really kind of made it moment of saying, okay, yeah. I now have something that, especially when that mortgage is paid off, like nobody can take this from me anymore.
[00:07:47] Spencer: And. Over the last 20 years, there's been a little bit of a counter narrative to that, to say maybe renting is more viable than [00:08:00] what we thought. I. And there's been different reasons for that to say you don't have the cost of upkeep, you've got flexibility. You don't have to ride a ride out the waves of economic cycles.
[00:08:13] Spencer: And so I'm interested for each of you, because each of you sit in roles that. Probably benefit more from home ownership rather than renting. But no one also that you sit across from people that sometimes it is in their best interest to rent. Absolutely. At least until ownership becomes right for them in the future.
[00:08:35] Spencer: So. I don't know, Jenny, maybe take this first. When you're sitting and talking to somebody that's trying to think about the reality of home ownership, how do you counsel them through that as they're trying to assess. Is it time for me to go into this place?
[00:08:53] Jenny: Well, first I would like to comment on, you said like people get into houses and then they're getting close to paying it off.
[00:08:58] Jenny: Right? And the way [00:09:00] that everything is now, it feels like a lot of people are moving more frequently. You don't see a lot of people staying in their homes for 20 or 30 years anymore. Yeah, they're moving maybe. I think the national average might be five to seven years. Is the reality of what people are moving around for.
[00:09:15] Jenny: So I always like to start with what are your long and short term goals, right? So do you plan on, how long do you plan on being in this home? Depending on, you know, we also look at like their age and kind of, you know, where they see theirselves five, 10, you know, years down the road and. Of also look at kind of where the economy is, because you can buy a home, especially right now, and over the past several years, you buy a home.
[00:09:38] Jenny: Let's say you bought a house in 2021. Well, you had some massive appreciation gains at that time. So if they came to me and they were at that time and they were saying, well, we're thinking that we might only be here two to three years, well, at that point they have a huge advantage to own because the way that the property is going to appreciate over a certain time.
[00:09:55] Jenny: Yes, it's slowed. It's not going down by any means. It's actually just kind of gotten [00:10:00] to more normal levels, but they're still, they've seen a lot of increase, which is making them a lot of money even though they're only gonna be there for a certain amount of years. So we look at that. And then also look at it financially.
[00:10:12] Jenny: What is it gonna cost for them to actually get into a home? Right? So what does that down payment look like? What do those payments look like? And we compare that to where they're gonna be with rent. 'cause if they're gonna live somewhere for two years, they're gonna pay 2,400 a month or whatever that rent might be.
[00:10:27] Jenny: How much money is that versus how much money that we're actually going to gain? But with appreciation and minus that. With certain expenses that would come with home ownership and kind of weigh it out that way. Just look at the numbers with it in addition to their goals.
[00:10:43] Spencer: Laura, how about you? How do you counsel people when they're trying to make that decision?
[00:10:48] Laura: We talk about payment. We also talk about that, you know, rent does increase. You know, it's not a stable number. It does increase. So that's something that they need to consider, but also it's their [00:11:00] lifestyle. You know, if you are a young person and you don't quite know where your career is gonna take you, you know, rental, especially in this market where we're not seeing the huge margins and growth of equity, you know, that could be a great.
[00:11:12] Laura: Option. If you're an older person who doesn't wanna keep up with the maintenance of a home, renting can be a great option for you. So I don't think it's always a one size fits all that you have to buy a home. I think renting. Benefits a lot of people.
[00:11:28] Carli: Yeah. A lot of what I'm hearing you guys do feels a little bit like your counselors.
[00:11:34] Carli: It really does feel like you have to be both a professional in what you're doing, but also you really have to get to the heart of the issue, which is you don't want somebody to end up upside down and. Financial stress is one of the top three stressors on any family. And financial stress is one of the number one causes of divorce in marriages.
[00:11:54] Carli: I mean, you can look that up. So I wonder, how do you. Kind of carry that burden [00:12:00] of working with families or individuals and knowing like they're coming to you, you're the expert, but you have to kind of parse out, this is my job, but also what is in their mental best interest in that moment. And sometimes that's probably fun.
[00:12:14] Carli: Yeah. And sometimes that's probably less. Fun.
[00:12:17] Jenny: Well, it makes you nervous a little bit, and I find the best thing is to just try to get to know each person the best that I can to really help to figure out where they're at and where they wanna be, and just understand them as a person and then just give them the details and get so they can make their own decision.
[00:12:33] Jenny: But it is a challenge for both of us. We do discuss this, that it is a challenge for both of us to like. Not take their Sure stuff home with us like at the end of the night. We both personally struggle with that.
[00:12:46] Laura: Yeah.
[00:12:47] Carli: With not taking on. Well it's part of the mental load, right? Yes. Everyone carries a mental load. I like to think of it like a backpack.
[00:12:52] Carli: And there are just stones that get put in your backpack and it's like people like in the parent trap are sneaking 'em in the back of your backpack and you're trying to climb a mountain.[00:13:00]
[00:13:00] Carli: And so I just was wondering about that, if that mental load got heavy. It's challenging. Yeah,
[00:13:05] Laura: it does. We have each other to talk to about that. Like we gotta let that go.
[00:13:08] Carli: Gotta let it go. Thank goodness for community. Yeah. Yes.
[00:13:11] Spencer: Laura, one other trend that I've seen over time is whether to purchase something new.
[00:13:17] Spencer: Something used. Or something that's a real fixer upper. And you know, when you think about it, when you're purchasing a car. We've pretty much settled on the fact that if you purchase a new car, the moment you drive off the lot, you're down 10%, best case.
[00:13:33] Spencer: And if you purchase a used car, it's thought that asset pace of decline is not gonna be quite as quick, but at the end of the day, the things still declines as you put miles on that vehicle.
[00:13:47] Spencer: When you think about home ownership, we've seen popular trends on TV and otherwise that fixing up a house has never been more cool to broadcast on television. That is, [00:14:00] and I just, it would probably help if
[00:14:01] Carli: we were handy though.
[00:14:02] Spencer: Oh,
[00:14:03] Carli: yeah,
[00:14:03] Spencer: I know enough to know that. However, that project turned out ain't how it's gonna turn out for me.
[00:14:09] Spencer: That is not how it's gonna turn
[00:14:10] Carli: out. Yeah. It doesn't, that doesn't work for
[00:14:12] Spencer: Yeah.
[00:14:12] Carli: Our skillset. But
[00:14:13] Spencer: yeah I'm, I have some giftings in some places that is not one of them. You will not find me doing that, but,
[00:14:18] Carli: and you don't want me on a ladder, like my clumsy self does not need to be on
[00:14:22] Spencer: the ladder. Yeah.
[00:14:23] Spencer: So when you think about. Sitting across from an individual or a couple that does have that skill. Okay. That they're maybe not able to build the house from the ground up, but like they've got some skill to be able to do some fixing. How does that factor into the counseling that you might give when someone is looking at a home from a place of appreciation?
[00:14:48] Spencer: Okay. So they're coming to you and sitting down and saying, we're gonna be here for 10 years. And we wanna know that our home is gonna be worth more in 10 years, as best as you can [00:15:00] forecast that for us. How do you talk them through that new used or like really used?
[00:15:07] Laura: I think that comes, it's about the counseling, right?
[00:15:09] Laura: Like what? What is their actual ability? Are we gonna, are we gonna, am I gonna come to your home in a couple years and it's gonna be very DIY, you know, and we No offense by that. Yeah. No. But some people think that they're handy, but it's not, it doesn't look professional.
[00:15:24] Yeah. Yeah. And there's a, and they
[00:15:24] Laura: need
[00:15:25] Carli: somebody besides the spouse to tell them that is potentially true.
[00:15:28] Carli: Yes.
[00:15:29] Laura: And so it's a hard
[00:15:29] Carli: conversation. Yep. Yep.
[00:15:30] Laura: Mental love, yeah, so it's the ability what is their actual ability to do that or what is their monetary ability to pay somebody to do the work. And you know, Jenny does have some loan options that can help with something like that. But yeah, it just depends.
[00:15:45] Laura: Also it like first time home buyers, for instance. A lot of times it's great to buy new construction because everything's brand new. So yes, you drive off the lot and you lose a little bit of value, but you have brand new [00:16:00] HVAC system. You have brand new water heater, brand new roof, all the things,
[00:16:04] Spencer: warranties, all the stuff.
[00:16:05] Spencer: Absolutely. Yeah. So
[00:16:06] Laura: that's a major plus for a lot of people.
[00:16:09] Spencer: Because that is interesting because if you're kind of stretching to meet a down payment and a monthly payment. And it's a fix up then almost certainly whether you want to begin the project immediately or not. Right? That project kind of involuntarily begins because your HVAC goes out or your hot water heater goes out, you start getting $500 here or $2,500 here and that adds up quickly.
[00:16:36] Spencer: A hundred percent.
[00:16:38] Carli: Oh yeah. Last time we moved the. It was August and the air conditioning broke the day of our move. The first day. Yeah. And it was like, oh, we could probably limp this for like four years. We knew it was gonna need. Some help and no, that was a first aid process. Oh yeah. And that's tough. So yeah, that does happen.
[00:16:54] Carli: Yeah.
[00:16:54] Laura: Yeah. So, and hopefully you have the cash to cover that, right? Yeah. Or else,
[00:16:58] Spencer: and that's the planning part, right? It is like [00:17:00] otherwise you're in trouble right away. So Jenny, maybe take that of, just from a financing perspective, if Laura sends you a couple that is looking at a house where they're intentionally saying, Hey, we want to do some work on this place.
[00:17:13] Spencer: But we need money for that. So the home value is here, whatever it's appraising at, but we need another $150,000 worth of work to really invest in this place. How does that look in terms of what a mortgage would get structured like?
[00:17:30] Jenny: So we would then look at, okay, what is. Needing what is gonna be done at this 150,000, right?
[00:17:35] Jenny: And what does that entail? And then what is the after repair value of that? So once you do that work, is that going to bring, 'cause sometimes people will do renovations and it's not bringing as much value as they think that it will because of. You know, the, maybe the market's different or something like that.
[00:17:50] Jenny: So it depends on what exactly they're wanting to do.
[00:17:52] Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. The
[00:17:53] Laura: finishes are too high for
[00:17:55] Jenny: the
[00:17:55] Laura: neighborhood or
[00:17:56] Jenny: the neighbor. Right. You put marble
[00:17:57] Laura: in a home that everybody else has [00:18:00] solid
[00:18:00] Jenny: surface countertops, you know? Yeah. And then they don't get as much return for it, so we try to analyze that and then while actually if they're doing a type of renovation loan.
[00:18:08] Jenny: We'll submit that bid to the actual appraiser and the appraiser's gonna appraise it based on those upgrades. Oh, interesting. So that's how that works. To make sure that it's gonna be right in line with where, you know, they don't, we don't want 'em to do these home improvements and borrow an extra $150,000 and then it not appraise.
[00:18:24] Jenny: So we'll appraise it upfront before the renovations are done. And then. That way we make sure that we're right in line with that. And then
[00:18:31] Laura: it becomes kind of like a construction loan, right? Like with the, it is like withdrawals. When you
[00:18:35] Jenny: go ahead, you close on the loan. So let's say you're buying a house for $300,000.
[00:18:39] Jenny: You're putting $150,000 into it. The new purchase price becomes four 50. So then all of the down payment closing costs are associated with that $450,000 price, and that's when it's appraised. And then. We close on the loan and then the contractor will be given draws similar to construction, and they do the construction [00:19:00] within a six to eighth month period.
[00:19:01] Carli: But that's not DIY. That's not D-I-Y-I-Y. I guess that would be my biggest question because data shows that because the housing market has gotten so expensive. Yeah. In middle Tennessee. That actually home renovations and improvement numbers have gone up, you know? Yeah. The Home Depots of this world are doing well right now.
[00:19:19] Yeah.
[00:19:20] Carli: So I know you can't say definitively, and it depends on the neighborhood, et cetera, but what. If somebody's listening to this and like, I wonder if this renovation would do something good for my value, what are the normally blanket statement best things you could do to increase the value of your home
[00:19:35] Jenny: square footage?
[00:19:35] Jenny: Okay. I think that is the number one when you're adding square footage. Because if you really look, and I've seen tougher markets where it came down to square footage and where your location is sometimes, you know. Granite, different finishings don't get looked at as much as you think that they would on an appraisal.
[00:19:54] Laura: Yeah. Square footage adds immediate value. Yeah, exactly. 'cause it's a measurement. You know? Right. But then I would say [00:20:00] bathrooms, kitchens. Kitchens. But don't do anything until you have a real estate professional come and like actually give you advice in person. Yeah. Because. You may not need to spend that money in order to sell your home and get it ready, you know, it could be a waste of money, but bathrooms.
[00:20:17] Laura: Kitchens for sure. And square footages pools don't add as much as you would
[00:20:20] Jenny: think.
[00:20:21] Spencer: Yeah, I was gonna say, where's the best way to waste it down? Let's say we just wanna light money on fire. Yeah. I mean, pools
[00:20:26] Jenny: don't get as much return.
[00:20:28] Spencer: Okay.
[00:20:29] Jenny: Barbecue pits sometimes I think that those might be, it depends on what you've got set up back there.
[00:20:34] Jenny: Okay. But I mean, like, a lot of people will put in a pool and it costs, you know, 50,000 and it gives them maybe 10 to. 15,000 in value.
[00:20:41] Wow. Yeah.
[00:20:41] Jenny: Which is shocking to some people when exactly when they see that and they're like, wait a minute, I spent 50,000 on this pool and it's only what, and I'm like, I know some people don't want pools.
[00:20:50] Jenny: So when you're looking to resell, sometimes houses with pools will sit a little longer too.
[00:20:55] Laura: There's also market value though, too, not just appraisal value. So [00:21:00] it can also be, you know, that the finishes that you have or you've designed it so well that people love it and want to buy it. That's true.
[00:21:07] Laura: Regardless of appraisal value.
[00:21:09] Jenny: That's true. Which is very different. It can be very, it can be very different appraisal value and market value.
[00:21:13] Spencer: Having a leader that is knowledgeable and shares that information is very important, especially with all of the changes that are taking place with commissions and things like that. A lot of agents out there.
[00:21:23] Laura: Don't even know what's happening and are still trying to do things the old way, which is gonna get them into trouble.
[00:21:29] Carli: And for people that maybe aren't up on their real estate, hip news, can you share a little bit about what those changes are right now?
[00:21:36] Laura: Yeah, so I think the biggest change has to do with the commissions for the buyer's agents.
[00:21:41] Laura: Previously we would talk to a seller and come up with an agreed upon amount. So what you would be paying the listing agent, you're gonna pay them this amount and you're gonna pay a buyer's agent this amount.
[00:21:53] Spencer: Historically, that was 3% and 3% historically is where it's always been negotiable. Okay.
[00:21:58] Laura: It's always been negotiable. But [00:22:00] that's the problem, right? It's because some agents weren't negotiating and people thought that they were stuck paying whatever that amount was, instead of going to a different agent who would negotiate with them. Okay. I think that's where kind of a misunderstanding happened.
[00:22:12] Laura: But now the buyer's agent commission is. On the contract. So everything is part of the big picture, the purchase price, what you're asking them to pay. Are you asking the seller to pay title? Are you asking them to pay closing costs? You know, are you asking for a BA rate buydown? But also the buyer's agent commission,
[00:22:31] Jenny: which really opens up the conversation to what are you, what am I paying you for as a buyer's agent?
[00:22:37] Jenny: Like, what are you gonna do for me? And. You know, what does that mean? Instead of just being like, oh, we're just paying these fees. And I think it, it opens up the conversation for that, which I think has been positive. I've heard a lot of positive feedback from it.
[00:22:49] Laura: It's a challenge. It's a challenge. I think anytime anything changes, it becomes a challenge. But I think the whole thing is to try to do away with corruption. Yeah. I hope that's [00:23:00] working.
[00:23:02] Spencer: So, I mean, let's drill on that a little bit, Laura, 'cause that like, as I understand, purchasing real estate. Anytime that I've gone to purchase it is 3% to the seller's agent and 3% to the buyer's agent.
[00:23:15] Spencer: And maybe I have been able to work with my seller's agent and saying, could I do two and a half? Rather than three. But in general. You know, you're talking about five and a half or 6% of the purchase price and for the buyer, like, there's just no conversation around it being anything different than 3%.
[00:23:36] Spencer: Because the thought being that if I lower the rate that goes to the buyer's agent, that they're going to massage their client into a different direction rather than purchasing the place that I'm trying to sell. So the change in the legislation is it just. Reinforcing to say, Hey, this has to be negotiable, or is there [00:24:00] something that is structurally changing about real estate that somehow forces that negotiation?
[00:24:06] Spencer: Because I hear what you're saying is like the rates on the contract, but if before this podcast, I would've. Already assumed that would've been the case. Like on a closing statement, it was on there. So help me understand just some of the more of the change there. 'cause I sense that it's a seismic change, but I'm still trying to grasp that a little bit.
[00:24:21] Laura: I think the structure in real estate is the same. Okay. Okay. I don't think that's changing a whole lot. I. Minus ibu. IBU are changing things a bit. What
[00:24:30] Spencer: are Ibu
[00:24:31] Laura: like? Zillow open door, things like that.
[00:24:34] Spencer: Okay.
[00:24:34] Laura: But as far as the commissions go it's just making it a conversation. Some agents were telling buyers, oh, well, you're not gonna have to pay my commissions The seller is, well, that's not reality, because it's all part of the bottom line. So when you sell a house, okay, you're like, oh, I'm deducting this from the amount they're offering and this from the amount they're offering. So I'm coming to this bottom line. So now everything is on one page for everybody to see, and it is open.
[00:24:59] Laura: [00:25:00] You're right, as far as in this market, when it's a more challenging market, you. Probably don't want to pay less. An agent is not supposed to pass over a home due to commission. It happens. People are people, right? Yeah. So you do wanna offer a good commission to a buyer's agent but it's all part of the conversation now.
[00:25:19] Laura: Yeah,
[00:25:19] Jenny: I
[00:25:19] Laura: have a
[00:25:20] Jenny: question.
[00:25:20] Laura: So with that,
[00:25:21] Jenny: do you discuss with your buyers prior to going under contract what the your commission is and how that will be handled if the seller chooses not to pay it?
[00:25:30] Laura: Yeah. So now you have to legally have a buyer's agreement. Signed before you even look at one house.
[00:25:35] Laura: And so you have to be clear with your buyer that this is what they're gonna pay me and move forward and make sure that's an understanding. You can't amend it. So, for me, I've always been open to the negotiations. So, you know, let's say that we're, look, let's say we agree to 3%, they're gonna pay me 3% to help them buy this home.
[00:25:54] Laura: But we look at a home and the seller is saying, oh, well. With this price, we're gonna offer 2%. [00:26:00] Well, then it becomes a conversation. I can either tell my buyer, Hey, you're gonna bring that extra 1% to equal the 3%. Or I can say, it's okay. I will take 2% and we'll amend the buyer's agreement, which is typically what I would.
[00:26:13] Laura: What I would do.
[00:26:14] Carli: Jenny. Teach us some of the more arcane components of the mortgage aspect too. So we're learning now some about the potential negotiability of some rates inside of a buyer and seller's agent.
[00:26:30] Spencer: When you think about. Getting a mortgage. I mean, the closing paperwork alone kills an individual tree. I mean, it is crazy how much is there.
[00:26:40] Spencer: So I have to imagine you've been, you know, you said you've been doing this more than two decades. What are some things that you might point out to people that maybe they didn't know or they. Should be looking for. What are some of those hotspots
[00:26:55] Jenny: So when. People come to me and we talk about their pre-approved [00:27:00] price, and then they're may be wanting to go and put an offer in on a home. Okay? And maybe they're asking for closing costs to be paid for. Maybe they're doing a hundred percent financing or they're doing a minimum down payment of three to 3.5%.
[00:27:12] Jenny: So maybe their cash is a little limited. And then now. They know that they have to pay an agent commission. So I like to talk through, okay, this is where all of your money is going. You know, whether you're, A lot of people don't realize that when the seller's paying it, they're actually financing it into their loan.
[00:27:28] Jenny: So that's one thing to kind of be mindful of, because yes, they're gonna pay your closing costs and they're gonna pay your agent commission, but that's really coming into how much you're paying for the house, and I think that is not really. That doesn't really sink in a lot. Right. So I like to go over that and let them know that, but it's actually sometimes cheaper for them to do it that way than bringing it out of their own pocket.
[00:27:49] Jenny: Right.
[00:27:50] Spencer: Do they still list if they're paying buyer agent commission? No, that doesn't, they can't.
[00:27:53] Jenny: Okay. They don't list it. It could be
[00:27:54] Laura: a conversation between the agents. Okay. But you know, that's why it's so great that we work so well together. Yeah. Because [00:28:00] we can have a conversation and figure out exactly how to structure Yeah. The purchase. That will get them. You know what each individual is looking for, whether it's a lower rate or a lower monthly payment.
[00:28:11] Spencer: Okay. So this is an interesting, I wanna make sure I understood one, one part of the discussion that you all just had there.
[00:28:16] Spencer: So when historically, before maybe this policy change, I've always understood that the seller. Is automatically paying the 3% we'll just use the three and three is automatically paying the buyer's agent as well as the seller's agent. But is there something different now that potentially if a buyer is retaining an agent, that the buyer is gonna be cutting an additional check above and beyond the purchase price of the home?
[00:28:45] Jenny: It's possible. Yeah. I've seen it done since all of these changes. Wow. I see. Buyers actually coming to the table with. Some of their agent commission that the seller doesn't agree to pay. So now sellers can choose, okay, well I'll pay your buyer agent commission [00:29:00] of 2%, but they have an agreement for three, so then the buyer has to come up with 1% difference.
[00:29:06] Spencer: Oh, I see. Okay. Or the agent
[00:29:06] Jenny: amends their buyers, or the agent amends it. But some
[00:29:09] Laura: agents do and some agents don't.
[00:29:11] Laura: But
[00:29:11] Laura: this was also happening during the really hot marketplace that we had. We were having offers where buyers would say, I'll pay my buyer's agent commission. So it's really always been part of the conversation interest.
[00:29:26] Laura: I just don't think
[00:29:27] Laura: everybody's aware of
[00:29:27] Laura: that.
[00:29:28] Carli: Huh. Well, and so much of what you guys have to do is be educators. Yes. Because you know, we've purchased homes together, but all of these nuances. Are really project by project. So just because you aren't a first time homeowner doesn't mean that you know all of the nuances of what you're getting into.
[00:29:46] Carli: And so it's having. Somebody willing to take the time and take you line by line and really think through all of the moving pieces because yes, you really don't wanna get blindsided. You're already managing a move, which is stressful enough. Yeah. You also [00:30:00] don't wanna get blindsided by an extra check.
[00:30:02] Jenny: That's exactly right. Yeah. And you know, I mean, we walk through that like we'll sit down once you get a contract in, or once I get a contract in, I sit down and I go over all the numbers. Right? this is what your total cash at closing is. With the seller doing this, and, you know, and make sure that they, you know, everybody understands this is what we're bringing instead of going to the closing table and being like, oh, I need another $10,000, or whatever, you know, the case may be.
[00:30:24] Carli: I have
[00:30:25] Carli: a question. The average, I think you said earlier, the average person is moving now maybe every five to seven years. Yeah. So you will get, if you've been doing this 20 years, you will get some repeat
[00:30:36] Jenny: yes
[00:30:36] Carli: clients, but your bread and butter probably isn't repeat clients.
[00:30:41] Carli: So what are you hoping for? Are you hoping for word of mouth? How does that business model really work? Referrals. Absolutely. All,
[00:30:49] Laura: most of my business is referrals.
[00:30:52] Laura: I don't really do a lot of marketing and all of that, but because I just really enjoy my relationships and I build relationships with [00:31:00] people and I love referrals. You actually work with people more often than every five to seven years though, because people refinance every That's true. One to two years.
[00:31:09] Jenny: One to two year. I don't know exactly what the statistics are, and I'll have to look up like the national average now for the times that people move. I, it's about seven years. But. Staying in touch with your database, right. And the people that you've worked with in the past.
[00:31:21] Laura: It's such a complicated process.
[00:31:24] Laura: What the buying of your home, the selling of your home, and the mortgages. I feel like everybody sees that, you know, rates have gone down, the feds lowered the rate. Why aren't mortgage rates lower? It's just such a large, complicated,
[00:31:37] Jenny: Industry. Yeah, it's trying to just reduce it down into its simplicity though. One step at a time. I find that's easiest.
[00:31:45] Carli: Well, and we always say, 'cause we're big on educating people to speak.But if you can't explain it to your 5-year-old, then you probably don't know it. Well enough, even the most technical stuff, if you can't distill it down, and I would [00:32:00] say, and I'll just make fun of myself. If I had to come to you for the first time doing this, the first time we bought a home decades ago, I would've felt like a five-year-old trying to learn this content.
[00:32:09] Carli: And I think that's how a lot of people feel. The first time they're making, they're putting their name on the line. So I feel like that is accurate. If you can't. Distill it down. Yeah. And make it simple, then they're probably working with the wrong people.
[00:32:22] Jenny: I agree. And it's, you know, there's so many different terms.
[00:32:24] Jenny: I mean, people are like, your DTI, your LTV, and people are like, what does that mean? And it's scary, you know, escrows, what is that? And so when I walk into a room and people are using terms and words that I don't really understand, I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna be quiet and just shake my head. Okay. Yeah, whatever you say.
[00:32:39] Jenny: But I don't want it to be like that. You want people to understand what kind of loan they're getting into, you know what the terms are with the house, the property, you know, all of it.
[00:32:47] Laura: And just remember buying one home, selling one home is not a matter of life and death.
[00:32:54] Laura: Like, you're gonna be okay. You're gonna get through it. It's not nearly as scary as you might [00:33:00] think it is, Uhhuh, but as long as you trust the people who are walking the path with you, you are going to be okay.
[00:33:06] That's good.
[00:33:07] Spencer: One thing that we do towards the end of each of our podcasts is we give a little fill in the blank exercise. Okay. So I read a short sentence and then each of you will fill in the blank for that short sentence. Okay. The only thing I ask is you just.
[00:33:19] Spencer: Read the sentence back to me and then fill in the blank. Okay. Okay. So, I'll start off with you, Ginny, on one, and then we'll just bounce between the two of you on each of this. Okay. Do it right. Alright, here we go. The best kept secret about financing a home in Tennessee is blank.
[00:33:36] Jenny: The best kept secret about financing a home in Tennessee is that you get to work with me.
[00:33:41] Spencer: That was perfect. I like that. Yeah. Do you want to, do you wanna chip in on that, Laura, or do you want to, because I know financing is not necessarily your thing, but you mean if very well could be. So I,
[00:33:50] Laura: the best kept secret about financing a home in Tennessee, I would say is the a hundred percent financing program options.
[00:33:58] Spencer: That's good. There's
[00:33:59] Laura: no down [00:34:00] payment needed.
[00:34:01] Spencer: That's a good start. All right. Here's number two. We'll go right back to you, Laura, and then we'll go Jenny. Since we started with Jenny, if I were advising a first time home buyer today, I would tell them blank.
[00:34:13] Laura: If I were advising a first time home buyer today, I would tell them this is the best time they could possibly buy.
[00:34:22] Laura: Due to your ability to negotiate for closing costs, rate, buy downs, negotiate, price, and not be competing with 10 20. Other buyers
[00:34:33] Spencer: That's been wild over the last five years for sure.
[00:34:35] Laura: And there's so many a hundred percent financing options too.
[00:34:38] Spencer: All right, Jenny, you wanna take a crack at that one? If I were advising a first time home buyer today, I would tell them blank.
[00:34:45] Jenny: If I were advising a first time home buyer today, I would tell them not to be nervous about starting the process and looking over everything and their financial picture. 'cause a lot of people are intimidated about that. They're worried that their credit will get messed up. They're worried about what we're gonna think about [00:35:00] their income or.
[00:35:01] Jenny: You know, whatever kind of hesitations people have, they're just really nervous about it. We'll talk through it together. So that would be my advice to them. The fear of the unknown. The fear of the unknown.
[00:35:10] Jenny: Yeah.
[00:35:11] Spencer: Who should, this would be interesting. You all might disagree on this. Who should a first time home buyer? Start with first.
[00:35:17] Jenny: Lender. Lender.
[00:35:18] Spencer: Lender. Okay. I thought I might get a disagreement there. Yeah, I bet a lot of people would miss that question. I bet a ton of people. Call Laura first. Absolutely. And then say, oh, well I can't afford that.
[00:35:28] Spencer: And it goes the opposite way.
[00:35:30] Jenny: That's exactly how it works. It's really, real estate is an emotional purchase, I feel like, for a lot of people. And they don't want to even talk to me until they've kind of emotionally attached themselves to a property.
[00:35:40] Jenny: I
[00:35:41] Laura: see that all the time. They're very afraid to talk to the lender.
[00:35:43] Laura: They don wanna talk about the money, but any buyer, yeah. Should talk to a lender first. I don't care
[00:35:48] Jenny: if
[00:35:48] Laura: you're buying your 10th home or your first home.
[00:35:50] Spencer: All right. Here's the last one. Okay. The biggest misconception about buying a home in Tennessee right now is blank.
[00:35:58] Jenny: The biggest [00:36:00] misconception about buying a home in Tennessee right now is that the prices are gonna come down after a certain time. I think that this area, the whole state of Tennessee is very strong in real estate. I feel like the prices are gonna continue to appreciate. I don't feel like they're gonna come down at all.
[00:36:19] Spencer: Laura, do you have a different one on that, or to echo that,
[00:36:22] Laura: I would, agree that it's the market is stable, and if you're going to wait for home prices to come down, I think you're gonna miss the boat.
[00:36:32] Spencer: There's still 80 people a day moving. To Tennessee.
[00:36:38] Spencer: It is amazing that statistic ad every day, you can tell it by looking at the interstates.
[00:36:42] Spencer: Lemme tell you that. Oh, that is know no lie.
[00:36:45] Laura: It is crazy.
[00:36:46] Spencer: I really appreciate having you all here because you embody the spirit of entrepreneurship
[00:36:50] Spencer: in a way that lets you connect to people at a lot of different levels.
[00:36:54] Spencer: So thank you for doing some great things for the entire state of Tennessee, for Middle Tennessee, and [00:37:00] people helping realize their dreams.
[00:37:02] Jenny: Yeah. Thank you for having us. I appreciate it. It's been fun. Yeah.
[00:37:11] Spencer: Laura s Scoggins real estate agent with Benchmark Realty and Jenny Haines Douglas Senior Loan Officer at Movement Mortgage. There was a lot of educational content in that one, and I think the stats that we could just layer on for. That podcast are immense. You know, it's like some of the ones that we had pulled up.
[00:37:34] Spencer: You mentioned approximately 28% of Tennessee households were considered cost burdened. Which means they're spending more than 30% of their household income on housing.
[00:37:44] Carli: It's huge. And if that's renters and buyers, I thought, 'cause sometimes you think one might be easier than the other, but it's across all demographics.
[00:37:53] Spencer: Another stat in more lemme do this another stat. Just looking at the last five years, home [00:38:00] prices in Nashville have increased by 53%, and I see that, I mean, if you already are here, you're thankful for that. I mean, clearly your investment is appreciating, but for people that own. Realize that their cost of ownership is also going up with their price of their home.
[00:38:23] Spencer: It can also become too expensive to keep living there. Taxes change, cost of living changes, and it's very much a double-edged sword. And if you haven't already bought, then you know you're paying a huge premium for a price that, you know, this house was 500,000. Four years ago and now it's 800, 900,000.
[00:38:45] Spencer: I mean, it's crazy. What is going on in the space?
[00:38:48] Carli: Well, and I think it's happening across Tennessee. We talked a lot about Middle Tennessee and specifically Nashville, and I know it's not in every single county. It is not to this same degree, but it's not [00:39:00] just here. People are moving to Tennessee. I know Davidson County is taking the brunt.
[00:39:04] Carli: I think, what is it like 24% of the people moving to Tennessee? But gosh, that's 76% of the 80 people moving here every day are going to other places besides Davidson, Williamson County. Yeah. And so it's not just a problem here.
[00:39:20] Spencer: Yeah. And I think that speaks to it, that one in three home sales in Nashville are being made in all cash, which is particularly intimidating because getting a loan.
[00:39:32] Spencer: Is a huge part of purchasing any home and to know that you're competing against mostly people that are coming in from out of state, where, you know, they come from California and say, well, you know, a home like. This in Tennessee, if you looked at it in California, it would be $3 million, but this home is 750,000.
[00:39:54] Spencer: I mean, those are real differences of figures that they sell their home in [00:40:00] California, in New York, in Chicago, and then they're able to take just the equity that they have in their house there and buy a house here in cash.
[00:40:10] Carli: I think a lot of great things are happening in Tennessee, and I think there's a lot of really good reasons why people are moving here.
[00:40:16] Carli: I mean, the whole reason for this podcast is what makes Tennessee, why should people wanna be here? Why is this special? But there's this tension, right, of, you know, Tennessee is special because we live and value certain things, and there's this. Emotional concern that people moving here may not share our values, but then there's also this economic concern of, hey, just because you have all of these dollars in California or New York or other places coming in, there are very real needs for families.
[00:40:46] Carli: We were just talking with an educator trying to find high quality teachers. At their school, and they cannot find teachers because people can't live in Middle Tennessee on a teacher salary in a lot of cases, unless they already live here, they can't relocate [00:41:00] here. It creates a really true tension for what we want and how we want this part of our state in our country to stay.
[00:41:08] Spencer: Well, housing affordability, unlike a lot of different problems, it's not that difficult to diagnose the problem and the solution because. The problem is that there is not enough supply. I mean, that's it. We are not going to be able to regulate, nor should we regulate someone's ability to buy something.
[00:41:28] Spencer: Like the demand side is unfixable. We don't wanna make Tennessee less desirable. We don't wanna say that You have to go through, you know, some type of. Proof of loyalty tests to be able to buy in Tennessee, like none of those things are. That'd be really
[00:41:43] Carli: funny though. I'd let you write it. Yeah,
[00:41:44] Spencer: and
[00:41:45] Carli: I'd love to read it.
[00:41:45] Carli: I don't, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be constitutional, but that'd be really funny.
[00:41:48] Spencer: Yeah, we'll test how they say certain words, certain cities across the state, counties that, you know, can you pronounce this county? And we'll know immediately, like can't live
[00:41:56] Carli: in Davidson County if you can't say Deran.
[00:41:58] Spencer: That's exactly right. It's not [00:42:00] demon Bruin down, down downtown. It's Dum. So yeah, there's a lot of different things like that. But in any case. The supply issue is the problem, and so looking at the incentives for why more single family and multifamily residences are not being built at the pace that is needed is squarely where we have to focus.
[00:42:22] Spencer: The solution is there. It's a supply side problem, not a demand side problem.
