Mark Green on Politics in Review (and What’s Ahead)
Dr. Mark Green, physician, combat veteran, and former U.S. Congressman from Tennessee, joins the conversation to reflect on his years in public service, his decision to step away from Congress, and what comes next.
About Mark Green
Dr. Mark Green is a physician, combat veteran, and former U.S. Congressman representing Tennessee’s 7th District. Over the course of his career, he has served his country in uniform, built a successful business, and most recently held senior leadership positions in Congress, including Chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security.
During his time in Washington, Green was known for his focus on national security, fiscal responsibility, and strengthening Tennessee’s role in shaping federal policy. A West Point graduate and decorated Army veteran, Green’s experiences serving in combat zones continue to shape his commitment to public service and leadership. His decision to step away from Congress marks the closing of one chapter and the opening of another, as he looks ahead to new ways of serving Tennessee and the nation. Green is also the founder of Prosimos, a company dedicated to helping American businesses expand globally while promoting economic partnerships that counter China’s influence.
Author and Thought Leader
Mark Green is the author of two books: A Night with Saddam and We Before Me: The Advantage of Putting Others Before Self. He has also published a number of notable op-eds and articles, including:
Wall Street Journal (Jan 5–6, 2024): “Russia, China and the Threat to the North Pole” — advocates more U.S. icebreakers and Arctic readiness.
Select Committee on the CCP (Dec 16, 2024): Co-authored with Rep. John Moolenaar: “China attacked US with hackers. We need to hit back hard.”
Washington Examiner (Feb 4, 2025): On border policy and “the days of our sovereignty being taken for granted are over.”
RealClearPolitics (Apr 29, 2025): “‘One Big, Beautiful Bill’ Will Give Americans a Secure Border” — outlines Homeland Security funding priorities.
-
Congressman Mark Green of the Seventh District. Welcome to Signature Required.
Yeah, thanks for having me. Really glad to be with y'all.
We are really thrilled to have you on the show today. Uh, we have a lot to be able to cover and talk about, but where I wanna start is a lot of our listeners don't bring any political background at all.
Uh, and so if you can just start at the basics of the role that you've played, how many districts there are in Tennessee. Just give us the real basic, because I want them to really appreciate, uh, what, uh, and who, uh, we have here, uh, on the show.
Uh, you're kind. No, I recently served as the chairman of the committee on Homeland Security, so the United States Congress has.
I think 20 standing committees and, uh, you know, I served as the congressman for the seventh District of Tennessee. There are nine in the state, uh, so one of nine. And, um, I represented, uh, district seven to, which is downtown Nashville and some really cool parts of Tennessee. I got Fort Campbell, I got rural, I got agricultural, I got industrial manufacturing, um, in Washington.
And voted on legislation, um, you know, advocated for constituents, uh, those kinds of things. Uh, and after my second term, got selected to be the chairman and I was the chairman of Homeland Security. Did a lot of stuff in that, uh, capacity. Homeland Security is everything from secret service to ice, to border patrol, uh, cybersecurity, uh, cisa, which manages our federal cybersecurity.
So 23 agencies, uh, and uh, wrote, wrote their budget passed the laws that empowered them to do their job.
I always find it so fascinating when you're in those cybersecurity, homeland security, like the things that you know, that all the rest of us were like, Ugh,
Yeah, the world is not, uh, I, I would say the world is in a unique place right now. We're transforming from a unipolar world where the United States was the single superpower to a multipolar world. And I, I say I hope it's multipolar because typically peace occurs when there's a multipolar structure to the, to the international sort of setting.
Um, if it's bipolar where there's us and then China axis, that's bad. That's, that's a potential for conflict. If you go back even all the way to the 30 years war and go from 16, I think it was 40 or something, 42, when that piece, the piece of Westphalia formed the western structure for sovereignty of governments.
Um. Whenever there's been a bipolar alignment, it's typically resulted in a major conflict after. So what we want to do is to try to prevent that from happening. Right. But it's, it's trying to happen very, very, very, and if it does happen, then we need more allies and friends, then we probably believe or no.
I, I also think a huge part of your story is from the time before you were in Congress and you've written a number of articles, you've written a great, uh, series of different books, but a Night with Saddam. Yeah. Maybe tell a little bit of that story because Sure. I think that is a huge part of the precursor for why you probably were sitting on some of the committees that you were sitting on.
Yeah. I spent 24 years in various capacities in the US Army. You know, I went to West Point was an infantry officer and arranger for about nine years. My father d nearly died and I went to med school because the impact that that doctor who saved his life had on me became an Army physician and then an army Special operations physician, which led me to, uh, the capture of Saddam Hussein and then interviewing him the night we caught him.
Um, that was surreal, oh my gosh. To say the least, to be a part of history in that way. Um, and, and of course the most, uh, awesome part of it was just serving those men and women who are the elite of the elite to be their doctor and to take care of their kids when we're in the, in the rear, so to speak. And then to be with them managing the traumas that would occur in combat.
Um, that was, uh, just very rewarding working with these guys and just unbelievable. Hmm.
And so you've served in Congress for how many years now?
So did Congress for six and a half. Mm-hmm. So, uh, three terms. Um, was very honored to get the chairmanship after just two terms. I think you have to go back 70 years to find someone who was able to do that.
But I fulfilled the goals that we set for it and so it was time for me to find something else to do. And, uh, I did what I, you know, what I promised the president I would do and I promised the people of the seventh district I would do. And so, um, I'm an action guy. I gotta go to the next project and, uh, we've got a good one we're working on now, so.
Mm-hmm. Well, I appreciate that a lot. 'cause part of what. I think in order to tell your story correctly, to look at all of your service to the country and to the state of Tennessee, um, we need to address the last 18 to 24 months. Yeah, sure. Uh, because there's been a lot of news and a lot of press, and part of the challenge from my vantage point is that, you know, you are an elected official for a lot of people, and that comes along with kind of this separation from you as a human.
Very much so. The Mark Green. Yeah. Uh, versus someone that is, uh, one of the highest public figures in the land. And so, um, what I wanna start off with is giving a little bit of context and a timeline, uh, that I think a lot of people listening from the seventh District and, and from the state of Tennessee, um, would really benefit from having some clarity on.
So, um, the timeline, that I, I really wanna focus on a little bit is, starting in early 2024, you initially announced a resignation Yeah.
From Congress. Your, your, your plan to, to step down and then, uh, you change that decision. Yeah. And decide, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna run. Yeah. And towards the end of that campaign, you end up having a very public and unfortunate divorce and media cycle and stuff that no human being on the planet wants to go through.
Yeah. Not pleasurable.
No.
You get elected into Congress, pass, the big beautiful bill, and then. Uh, announce a resignation in the middle of, your time there. And we're having the first special election, in a number of decades here. Yeah. In Tennessee. Yeah. So that's kind of the overarching story. So can you take us back to the start when you're in, you know, February of 2024 and you're like, you know, I've served in a lot of ways, but my time in Congress has done Yeah. What went into that?
Well, obviously for me, the, the holding the Mayorkas, uh, Biden administration accountable for the failure at the border was the sort of thing I wanted to make sure I accomplished before I got outta Congress.
I had said that I would, and we went through that process. The house had to impeach him. Um, so I led that, that impeachment effort. Um, and because it was Homeland Security and because they, the border falls under us, they gave us that mission. And so I took it, you know, execute my orders, uh, duty, uh, and so we did it.
We, we, uh, painted the picture over, I think it was five or six months, uh, did the impeachment. And I think Jordan probably stayed in basketball too long. Right. I mean, he had, there was a better time for him to have get gotten out, right. Or not Congress, but basketball and I didn't want to be that. Right. So I, I accomplished what I wanted to do.
I went to everybody and said, look, I'm gonna, I'm gonna not finish. I'm not gonna run for reelection. I'll finish this term and I'll not run for reelection.
Because that was kind of the epicenter I in the border. That was the height of the crisis. It was anyone near that was not escaping the shrapnel of what was occurring
a hundred percent right.
That was at the time, and that's what resulted in, I think, president Trump winning was the promise to fix the issue that they had created. My responsibility was accountability. And so we, we did the impeachment. It was successful. I thought, this is the time to make an announcement and the press beat me, right?
I wasn't prepared to make the announcement until, but once the word got out, it's like, well, I don't want them leading the story. So we made an announcement a little faster than we probably would have that aside. As soon as I did, I got. Thousands, literally thousands of calls from constituents and from, uh, of course, leaders in Congress all the way up to, uh, Marsha Blackburn, you know, reached out.
And then the next call came from POTUS and President Trump was like, look, I'm running for reelection and I need you to help me secure, you know, get the legislation that will support what I'm doing on the, on the border. And I said, yes, sir, I'll do that. And that's the big beautiful bill. So we got that done and I said, okay, I'm, I'm gonna move on to the next mission.
And that's basically what, what the decision was. Hmm.
I've heard he is hard to say no to.
He's pretty hard to say no to. I've heard. Yeah. I mean, I was sitting in my basement when I got the phone call. I had four or five friends, fellow congressman sitting there and I'm like, you know, should I take it? And they go, yeah, put him on speaker.
So I, I'm talking to him and he is like, uh, hey, I think this is the first time in history that a president has asked a congressman to run for reelection. And I'm like, yes, sir, probably. And, uh, you know, he said some very nice things about me. And then said, I said, yes sir. I, you know, you're not gonna tell him no.
Right? So, um, I said, yes, and, and of course secured the seat. And then, you know, there was some fear about the seat at that point because the candidate running had been a popular mayor. Now she had some baggage too, right. But there was fear that whoever we put up. Might have a challenge there. So that was part of the motivation of them saying, no, we really need to have you run and keep this seat and, and secure it for Republican, for Republicans.
And I said, absolutely, I'd do it. And of course, I won that seat, that election with the biggest majority I'd ever, ever won. So. Hm.
Congressman, I was hoping we were gonna get a Donald Trump voice impersonation. Not from me. The best for,
that's Pat Fallon from Texas. He's, he's phenomenal at it.
Uh, okay. So we move forward in, in the narrative to, uh, September.
Yeah. In 2024, when, you know, this is where the separation of things that are deeply personal come into public life. Yes. And so I think it's better for me to just give you the floor to say anything that you wanna say about that, that period of time and, and, and that development. Sure, sure. I mean, I had a personal failure. You know, I, I made some bad decisions that, um. You know, we're coming out of, uh, some, uh, some personal emptiness and, uh, I would not recommend that pathway. But, um, you know, it resulted in trauma on a lot of people in my family, you know, my children and, and my, um, wife.
Um, and I, I'd just say, you know, very personal, don't necessarily wanna get into all of the details of it, but, you know, um, it, it didn't detract from the job I was doing because I, you know, that's just who I am. But it did make life incredibly difficult for a period of time. Uh, and, uh, you know, uh, there've been obviously, you know, the legal challenge of going through divorce and all of that, uh, has been a, a, a difficulty, um, didn't necessarily play in my decision to step out.
You know, um, clearly I got reelected within six weeks of those announcements, but, um, you know, it's still very hard and it's still something that I'm having to deal with. Yeah. So.
Hmm. It was so hard. 'cause we, we know you personally and we've spent time with you and we've been big supporters and that's just a moment nobody wakes up in a day and is like, you know, what I wanna do today is while I am running for public office, I wanna file for divorce.
That sounds like a really fun. Yeah. I
don't encourage that
moment. Um, so nobody wakes up with that. And so with all empathy for that, I think it's also hard as Spence and I sit here too, I just have a question about we've considered, you know, running for public office someday, or is someday, do we wanna serve the nation in another capacity or our state in another capacity?
And everyone tells us not to do it because they're like, it's gonna really hurt your family. And we've cared about you so much, and then to see it hurt your family, um, was hard on a person's life. You were going through it. We left you alone, but we were praying for you because you never wish that on anybody.
I mean, is there a way to have a family in the public life or does it really just kind of set you up to fail?
Uh, I don't think it sets people up to fail.
You know, the, the problem for me were, were those things that were missing in, in my marriage and, uh, and I just chose, I chose wrong. Um, so I, you know, as on a personal level, uh, made a big mistake and, um, you just, you deal with it afterward. Um. You know, it, you can serve. I mean, lots of people, most people don't fall into the trap that I fell into.
Um, but, uh, it, it happened. And so you have to move forward. Um, yeah, I think people can serve and, and survive and not, uh, lots of people do, but you have to be really connected together. If you go into it with, uh, some, you know, lack of connection between, between husband and spouse, uh, then, then there's going to be some trouble and some challenges.
Uh, COV, um, you know, my wife got, uh, started a, a her own business back home, so I'm in DC sort of by myself. Um, it just, it was a setup for the mistakes that were made and, um, I would encourage people who get in. To, to not do that. You gotta do it together. You, you really have to do it together. And whatever your relationship is, uh, and whatever those needs are in the relationship, they gotta be, you gotta, you gotta get those met because, um, you know, Satan is there to divide.
Right? And so all of those pressures are gonna come and you just have to stay connected.
And you brought up your faith just now. I know you are a deeply Yeah. Faithful man. I'm a
very much so a deep faith guy. And this is something I never envisioned would ever happen to me. Sure. You know, and, uh, I never thought I would be the one that made that mistake.
Um, but maybe that's, that was part of my mistake, right? Was saying This will never happen to me. And, uh, you know, it did so.
Hmm. I really appreciate your authentic answers in that. That's not an easy thing. You know, there's
no, you, you just have to own it. You know, there's no, I, I can't, I can't say that. Oh, it's somebody else's fault.
Mm-hmm. And I have thus far avoided and will continue to avoid addressing, uh, where others failed me. Mm-hmm. Right? That, that left the deficit that I tried to fill another way. Um, so I'm just, I'm not going there. Um, my, my wife is a great human being and I, I only hope the best for her in the future. Um, yeah.
So
may I ask one more question? Yeah. In this, you're a father of two?
Yeah. I got two kids. It's very hard for them. I will say divorce. Maybe harder on older children than younger children. Hmm. Because my two, uh, have really struggled with this. I have, I think, as good a relationship with 'em now as I could after all of this.
Um, but my son, who's even is a very deep faith, uh, believer, follower of Christ, uh, you know, it's been hard to repair that relationship with him. Uh, he, I, he had me on a pedestal, you know? Mm-hmm. And he, he, um, aspired to be like his dad, you know, and he's an army ranger now infantry officer just like I was.
And, uh, has a very successful military career going for himself. And then his father, you know, has a failure. And it's been, I think, challenging for him to accept that, that I was human or that I am human. And, um, that's been, you know, heartbreaking for me. Hmm. But hopefully instructional to him and, uh, we, we continue to, to communicate well and, uh, talk about it, but it just, it's difficult.
Hmm. Mark, a mentor friend of mine says that all that wisdom is, is accumulated scar tissue.
There's a lot to be learned with. I, I think most of the lessons I've learned in life, whether it was in the, you know, the army or running a healthcare company or in the state Senate or in Congress, have been with my beacon in the dirt, right?
So when you fall on your face and then you pick yourself up, dust yourself off and move on to the next thing, um, yeah. That's, that's where the lessons kind of come from. I, I think Maxwell even wrote a book about it failing forward, right? Uh, yes. So, uh, yeah. Yeah. I've
learned a lot from this. Well. Certainly from a faith perspective that we all share together.
No one makes it off this rock. We call Earth Alive. No one makes it sin free. Error free. Heavens knows that all of us, while it looks different for each of us, have things that we desperately wish that we could take back desperately. Wish we could undo words that we didn't say. And so I think your positioning to say that this is something that I own, but something that hopefully can serve as an example, is an incredible gift out of enormous pain.
Yeah. Yeah. I will tell you the hardest thing, and I'll try to say this without my voice cracking, but um, the hardest thing in it all for me was, um, to get to a place where I felt God's forgiveness. Um. Like I said, I never expected it. I never expected this would be me. Right. And, uh, to walk confidently afterwards.
Mm-hmm. Right. Because all my life I was praying to God help me with this next win. Right. Never help me deal with this loss.
Yeah.
Right. And, um, so this is new for me. This is a new place for me to be confident in his forgiveness and then move confidently forward. Uh, you know, I, I don't know that I've mastered that yet.
Um, so that's, that's probably the biggest challenge. Just know, you know, God's Christ's blood, which I've talked about with to so many people. Right. All my life I worked for the navigators, you know, ministry group. I led people in Bible studies. I've helped disciple and mentor young Christians. And here I am dealing with my own failure, saying, okay, God's the Christ's Blood's covering this.
Mm-hmm. Um, for me. Is has been really hard.
Hmm. Sometimes I think that we overlook that God loves us enough to bring our sin forward, and we sometimes think, oh, if he loved me, he would keep it hidden. Or if he loved me enough, like this would never come to light. But I think sometimes God uses those moments where it's our own, it's the consequences of our own action, but he uses it to sanctify and regenerate and create a new heart.
Um, that I think shows his love for us even more. It's you're, it's the old saying, like, you know who your friends are when you're successful. Yeah. Yeah. It's when you're down that you find out who the real, real are. And I think you are testifying the fact that the Lord has been there with you when you weren't winning.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was, uh, that was a new experience for me because. You know, if you look at my resume, I've had a lot of wins, right? So you go, okay, God helped me through all that. God, my success comes from God. Ooh, this isn't success. Mm-hmm. This was a personal failure. And, uh, you know, knowing that God forgives me, feeling confidently to move forward, that's, that's my current, um, you know,
thing I've, I'm telling myself, you know, I think in the Bible before the Lord uses anybody, there's a wilderness season.
Mm-hmm. That happens before the Lord calls them into whatever the next chapter is. And usually that wilderness season involves some type of hard work and intensity that takes your mind off of all sorts of other things and gets it really focused onto something specific. And so, you know, for you winning the election six weeks after all of this goes on.
And now you're in a Trump presidency. Yeah. Who has, by all accounts, works Congress and the Senate about five times harder than I think previous administrations have worked them before. Yeah. You know, you had a huge undertaking to try to get to what has been dubbed the big beautiful bill. Mm-hmm. Um, and you pushed relentlessly through that in order to get that thing passed.
So talk about some of, some of that is that you're coming out of a really, really difficult season personally into a professional responsibility to pass legislation that, you know has a generational impact to it. So talk about that season and what the passing of that bill meant for you and Congress.
Yeah. This was an opportunity to codify into law. Uh, the things that should have been happening at the border, particularly as it relates to my slice of it. You know, I had the Homeland security piece. Um, and so that's increasing the size of customs and border protection, taking care of the men and women who do that mission, giving them the resources to actually achieve real security at our border.
Um, and then codifying those decisions that, uh, president Trump had made through executive action. So, of course you've got, uh, moderate Republicans and you've got super conservative Republicans, and the challenge in the Congress right now is Republicans represent their districts. Democrats vote a, a straight agenda.
So it's much harder for us to knit together a product that will work for both our very moderate districts in the country. It's not that those individuals are moderate, it's that they represent a group of people in this country who believe the moderate, you know, my district is more over here, you know, and our folks believe in that conservative model and very conservative model.
And so how do we knit this together so we keep the coalition and get us to a place? And there literally was. I'd be two o'clock in the morning working on the New Yorkers who are in these very moderate seats who are saying, Hey, we have to have this in the bill for us to get reelected. And of course we want the majority because without the majority, you do nothing in Congress.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And so, uh, stitching that together was not easy at all. Um, but we did it and we got it to a place where we kept those guys whole and we kept these guys as happy as we could get 'em. You know, my side of the Republican party, you know, it's, it's hard to please us because we. We believe in, uh, an America that's a little differently than say, a Philadelphia suburb, right?
Mm-hmm. But we gotta have the Philadelphia suburbs to get anything done. Mm-hmm. And so, um, yeah, we pulled it off and we got it done. And I, I was on the phone with a White House. I was on a trip overseas, and literally the folks from the White House are saying, Hey, we're gonna, we want you to pull this part of the bill.
And I'm like, no, I'm not pulling that part of the bill. And, you know, really right up to the committee hearing when we passed it, uh, I was negotiating with the White House on stuff, so. Wow. Yeah, it was, uh, it was a challenge, but we got it done.
And so to kind of bring this story arc to the conclusion, you know, once it's done, you're saying, all right, yeah.
I'm, I did what
I said I, I could do, and, uh, look. Short of the big, beautiful bill. I'm not sure. Congress, of course, passing budgets and NDAs, the things they normally do, you know that that part's easy. Uh, and I'm a guy who likes hard challenges, obviously, uh, even, even when I stub my toe to get there. Um, but it, it is, uh, I, I'm a big vision, big, you know, I wanna accomplish big goals and there was an opportunity that came up to build a company that could help America in the competition with China.
And opportunities were driving this. And so I had an opportunity to do a big vision thing for our country in the private sector. And nothing left. To do in the con list of things I wanted to do in Congress. And so I'm like, okay, um, they're gonna be fine. We, we just gained two seats through very tragic circumstances where Democrats had passed.
And so I, I jumped out and I went to Mike Johnson and I said, Hey, look, here's what I'm looking at. And he said, you should go. Uh, absolutely. And we joked about, you know, what happens when he's done in Congress and maybe he comes and works with me. But, um, it's a big vision, uh, for the company Proximos that I've started and, um, you know, our country is facing some global challenges and helping American businesses meet that need, I think is something that I can do.
And. That's what, what I did. So,
and from the timing of, of it, I think for those that see the timing and say, you know, was it the urgency of the other opportunity that you saw that that window was closing or was it a dynamic that you were perhaps there longer than what you thought you were gonna be, but you served to make sure that that bill passed?
Like, help me understand the time. A little
bit of both of those. Okay. You know, I, I had accomplished what I said I wanted to do, and that was the big, beautiful bill and codifying all that. Um, but the urgency of the opportunity was real. Yeah. And that window was going to close because to do this very audacious goal, um, I needed to seize that moment.
And now I'm in a place where I can help American businesses go internationally. Into some relationships that are very important. Venezuela needs to be put into a box. Maduro needs to be put into a box. Um, and the opportunities in Guyana and the other parts of Latin America to ensure that we keep our backyard with American businesses there and not Chinese businesses is a national security issue for the country.
Right. And that window would've closed the opportunity to get my foot in and do that, uh, that window would close. So I, I, I'm done. The opportunity's there and it's timely and so I made the decision. Mm-hmm.
What do you say though? I mean, you've spent your whole life in public service. Yeah. Right. My 36
years, almost all of my adult life, I've been serving the country.
And then you have your Tennessean that during the hardest time of that 36 years, we like, okay. He stubbed his toe to use your words, but we're still gonna give him the money and the support. Yeah. To move in. That might feel a little bit of whiplash right now. Like I get the vision of what you're trying to accomplish, but what would you say to your comrades and arms, your constituents?
I
think to my constituents, I would say, you know, there is something bigger here. You know, we are contending for, uh, the world order. I mean, we are in a battle between us and our Western world order and a world order where facial recognition is used to suppress freedom. We cannot let that world order win.
And I have a unique opportunity to empower US businesses to become, to make foreign countries dependent upon American business. And if we can make foreign countries dependent on American business, we maintain those alliances. We keep the world order the way it is. If we lose that, and Chinese companies go in and, and become, uh, essential to those governments, those governments flip to China and then this battle for alliances and the, uh, and the polarization of the world, we lose.
So I'm about America winning in China, losing this battle for the world order. And where I sit in Congress, the productivity level in Congress won, wasn't fulfilling. Even though I, I probably did more in my three terms than most congressmen do. No one's ever impeached a sitting cabinet secretary, um, you know, I I, and passing the legislation that I've done.
But the productivity level, the ability to be a part of this vision and to make something happen for this vision. The, the op, the opportunity wasn't there in Congress. I can go and help a, submit a concrete manufacturer in Tennessee, secure a contract in Guyana, make that country dependent upon cement from America and concrete from America, or poultry from America or whatever.
And um, then that country is aligned with the United States of America. It's not aligned with China. So if I do that throughout the world, we win the battle with China. And I think having ships and, you know, Pete's doing a great job, hexis doing a great job. The president's doing a great, that's taken care of.
But the business side, we have American companies like are, that are disengaging globally. And we need, I, I'm not saying let's take manufacturing from the US overseas, I don't wanna do that. Right? I wanna bring manufacturing home to the us. But market share in foreign countries should be owned by Go American companies.
And then those com countries are dependent on us. And that interdependence, economically can help us win this battle for the world order. And that's, that's the vision of Proximos. yes, it's a big, bold goal, but I've never shot for the moon. I usually shoot for Jupiter, you know, so, and then you wind up on the moon, you know, but, uh, I, I, that's what we're doing and we'll see if we're successful.
Hmm.
Because before I close this chapter and squarely look towards the future, I, I really do want to come back to where we began the podcast, which is to say, you know, you have served the seventh district in ways that, uh, they've never had.
the types of congressmen sitting in the types of senior positions that they have had you sit in. And so when you look back over your time in Congress, or you can pull from before that too, but if I pull up the Mark Green Wikipedia page and it's written by you to say, here are the two or three things that I've been most proud of in my service in Congress or, or before.
What are a couple of those things that maybe people know about but maybe they don't? Yeah. That you can say, remember me for this when I served in the seventh district?
Well, uh, you know, before the seventh, uh, obviously the Saddam Hussein thing and being a part of that historical moment is something that, um.
You know, I had one, I was in the right place at the right time, but I earned my slot there, right? So, um, that, that is a life accomplishment that I'll always, uh, wanna talk about. But then in the state senate, you know, everybody talked about ending the whole income tax and everybody went down and got elected and, and it never got fixed.
And I went, I had PowerPoints, I, I, I did PowerPoints to fellow senators and said, look, this is the financial impact on Tennessee. And it took four years of running a, a version of that bill to finally be the guy that led the fight and ended what was the last remaining income tax in Tennessee?
You were putting PowerPoints together before AI was there to be able to put it together for you, right?
Yeah,
I've always done my own PowerPoints, but, uh, we did that and we passed that legislation that ended the haul income tax. We went from 35th or 40th or something, I don't remember the exact numbers near the bottom in places to retire. To being in the top five places in the country to retire because that was a tax on investment income.
It really impacted our seniors and we got rid of that. They removed the asterisk from Tennessee on no income. And, uh, that was probably my proudest moment. In a historical moment, only two states in the nation's history have ever repealed a form of an income tax, Alaska and now Tennessee. Uh, and in Congress, you know, getting to the chairmanship in two terms.
Um, of course the impeachment of Americas passing the legislation on both cybersecurity and on the big beautiful bill. Um, and then I started a club in, uh, in, in Congress. I wanted to see the rhetoric dialed down. I tried, uh, it was not, you know, we, we succeeded to some level, but we had Democrats and Republicans coming together for social purposes.
And, uh, that I think did help some, um, I, I'm hopeful they'll continue that now that I'm gone. But we called it Reagan O'Neill after Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill, who fought like cats and dogs. But each week they would meet and talk about football or baseball or, and they maintained a relationship that allowed them to do good things for the country.
So I, I patterned it after that. And we had a good organization that had about 50 Republicans and 50 Democrats when I left. Mm-hmm.
And you're hoping they'll keep that going? Yeah. I hope
they'll keep that going. Uh, I'll, I'll stay in touch with Hailey Stevens and, um, you know, pat Fallon and Beth Mandy and some of the Republicans.
And, uh, well, Hailey Stevens is the Democrat who was helping lead it, so, yeah. We'll, we'll keep pushing 'em to do that and keep it going
before we move to the future. I have to ask. There's always, we've talked a little bit about, you know, you have your private Mark Green and you have your public persona, Mark Green,
So. Before we move to talking about the future, what do you wish people knew about what it means to serve in the capacity that you have? Because I think you have had people sing your blessings. You've had people probably throw stones at your house, right? Yeah. You've seen them both. I just saw
my favorability ratings are about 70%, uh, president Trump's 92.
Right. So I don't like the fact, but he's, he's an icon. So I probably ne would never get to Trump's level, but my, my favorables are about 70%. My unfavorables have increased from six to 13, which was hard to look at. Right. But I'm still, uh, you know, the, the district still views me fairly positively. I think what you're asking is how do you, how does a person who gets elected go and do the job well?
Right. I think that's what you're asking.
Or what do you wish people knew about the nuances of the job? Yeah. The grind the day by day of it.
Yeah. How do you do all that and be successful? Uh, to be a really good legislator, you need to have those core values that, that align with your district. You have to be a fighter, but you have to be a smart fighter.
Mm-hmm. You know, you don't, the, the loud mouths up there don't get things done. Mm-hmm. And I would get on TV and I would bash and do what I had to do there. Sure. Because that's a part of it. But, but you have to be sophisticated enough to go to somebody and say, look, this point matters because of this reason.
And articulate it well, and then convince them to be on your side of that issue. And it's not, it's not the, the loud mouths that get listened to inside the building. And if you're not listened to inside the building, you don't matter As a congressman. Yeah. I, if you're, if you're just out on television and that's all you are, is this loud voice, well great.
You're the clanging symbol, right? But you're not effectively driving change. If you wanna effectively drive change, you need a sophistication that allows you to go and sit down with somebody in a setting like this and make the argument and make it well and be convincing. And, you know, I found it, I found that people listened to me and I was able to get things done.
And so when we look to replace me, uh, I'll, I'll just put a little plug in. I won't say a name, but we need somebody whose values align with us, who's a fighter, who will fight, but at the same time has the sophistication to sell those ideas in a way that will change other people's minds and not the people in the district so much.
'cause the district is there. Mm-hmm. You gotta be able to change people's minds inside Congress. And that's the person we need to have replace me, uh, if we want to continue on this same path.
So Congressman, I have a favorite saying that there is something called the tyranny of the how.
Which, if you start big ideas asking how it never works, because there's a million reasons why you can say it's not gonna work for this and it's not gonna work for that. And everybody's eager to squash your how. Yeah. So what's much more important to develop first is the why. Mm-hmm. If you have a powerful why, then you find.
A way to how
That's it. I mean, that's pretty much it, right? So the why is of course, what I articulated earlier. That's right. This, this battle for alliances and how do we get American businesses to see there's market overseas and then to go, uh, grab that for, for American companies, Tennessee companies, right?
So, um, it's the how is not as hard as you think. Um, it's finding the right business, finding the opportunity overseas, and then finding the capital. So it, those are the three challenges, right? Well, the capital is there. Yeah. I mean the capital, if you've got a great idea in a market and a good business plan.
So what we're really doing is finding the opportunity and then aligning with somebody who's come to me now, I get 'em, uh, a couple of times a day, people reaching out saying, Hey, I've heard what you're doing and we want to expand. You know, a company making body armor, right? We want to, we want to capture more overseas market.
And I'm like, okay, great. Let's, uh, these are the five co countries that I think would be great for one their friends now, and we, if we're gonna give something like body armor, that is a, a, you know, a a sort of national in of war. Yeah, it's an instrument of war or law enforcement too, right? Yeah. So then we want that to be a friendly country.
We go to that country, we, we make the introductions, we help build the business plan. We, uh, help them present for capital and put them in front of people who, who will help finance that. Uh, and then we execute. And that's what we're doing right now with multiple opportunities. Businesses right here in Tennessee that, um, feel like they're ready to grow.
And they've done what they can inside the state. They've done what they can in interstate commerce, and now they're thinking, let's, let's go international. And so, um, you know, doing that has been exciting and it's really just an extension of what you do every day here. Business plan, capital, execution of that plan.
Right.
That makes a ton of sense to me. 'cause as a business thinking about international expansion. Is usually off limits unless you are in a really significant tier of revenue. Like as Carli and I think as small business owners, we've thought of a lot of ways to add revenue, but to generate revenue overseas is not on the list because logistics, intimidating is
desperately needed, uh, throughout the, the, you know, the Caribbean and Latin America, I will tell you.
Yeah. So if you get to that place where you want to. Uh, let me, uh, let me help put you in the right place.
It's, it's amazing 'cause it is, it's so intimidating, but your skillset makes a lot of sense because you just said it yourself. You've had to learn about the cultures of the world, the connections and the networking that you've done over the years in a lot of different capacities does let you offer a value that to a normal small business in Tennessee.
You know, they have no chance at being able to try to compete or, uh, even have a product that could resonate with. People all over the world and you also help focus it down. I'm not saying, well, you know, the world is our oyster. Yeah. It's like, okay, there's probably three places that you need to look at.
And that in and of itself saves a lot of time and money.
Yes, absolutely. And I, when I was running my healthcare company, you know, we ran emergency departments for hospitals. Right. So I would go to a hospital and say, we can run your emergency department in a patient-centered way that will be profitable enough and we will make your hospital more successful.
Right. And we had 52 hospitals in 11 states at that point. I was really, seriously, well, how do I do this overseas? And we looked at, uh, London, uh, England, we looked at, uh, some places in Africa and all that. We couldn't find the right partner. And so we ultimately didn't expand internationally. Right. So I learned from that that the key is identifying the right partner in that foreign country to, to make the connection.
And then American businesses can expand. And so that's what we want. We want people dependent upon America, other countries, uh, governments particularly. So, uh, yeah, that's, that's what I'm about. Now,
this is a total aside, but I just also found this fascinating 'cause you've written a number of op-eds over the years.
Yeah. And you wrote one that just fascinated me because it was about the North Pole and about the battle and the dynamic internationally. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, it's a, a space that's largely ignored by the whole world, but is of enormous strategic consequence. Um. I, for those that haven't read it, it's worth a read.
Thanks. But are you gonna be doing anything in that space of doing some more writing? I mean, you've been an author published a couple times. Like is there anything there or is it gonna be, this is your focus for the foreseeable future? I think
there'll be sub stacks that I do and they'll be, you know, talking about how to expand internationally and how America wins, particularly as it relates to the arctic, you know, minerals, right?
So we're helping an, an urban mining company raise money. They basically melt cell phones and get the rare earth out of them melt computers. So I'm, I'm, I'm in that space, but maybe not so much in the Arctic. Uh, you know, in Guyana it's about crude oil and about, uh, minerals box site. You know, the president has, uh, wanted to decrease our dependence on Canada, and so I'm helping bring American companies to mine in Guyana.
So in that space of. Minerals and what's happening in the Arctic. I'm there, but I'm not in the Arctic. Uh, but, but clearly my, I have great relationships with Norway's senior leadership, particularly on the defense side, Finland. Um, so the, the, you know, if there's a company that that is interested in it, we'll help 'em get there.
But the Arctic, the, the battle for the Arctic is a national security issue. And we, uh, tried to fix that from a homeland perspective because the icebreakers fall under the Coast Guard and the, uh, we have two, and China has 32, and China's not even a, an arctic nation. And these, you're talking about the big ships that go in and break the ice.
Yes, they cut the ice and, and 'cause the ice is melting. So, uh, you're gonna see in the near future, uh, trade routes change. And of course, you, you, we fly across the North Pole when we fly internationally. Shipping that way is gonna be much faster and much better. And so I am in the shipping space, obviously, but um, it's something that we as a country can't neglect.
And so when I was in Homeland, we put more money in for ice cutters, so.
Hmm. Amazing stories that I could just Oh, yeah. Ask and ask and ask about. That's why I was like, I hope that that substack does come to life because the things that you think are pretty routine and like, yeah, this was just another day in the office.
Like there's probably a lot of things you can't share, but hopefully some of the things that you can, I assure you it's a lot more interesting than maybe what you even think. Okay. You can just tell stories about some of the decisions that were made in cybersecurity and homeland security and these things that, that really matter to all Americans that matter to Tennesseans.
But you know, you've got an incredible, uh, military background both in your district and personally. And so, yeah, I just hope, uh, and will speak a little life, uh, into, uh, that coming to existence. That's
kind. Yes, and I'm, I'm sure we'll, uh. I, I'm not, I'm not gonna disengage completely from political 'cause what I'm doing is for the purposes of our country.
Right? Yeah. So, and, and I'll make a profit at the same time. I'm, I'm not, uh, saying that this is a not-for-profit thing, but, um, I want to still be about something bigger than Mark Green. And, um, so yeah. I mean, uh, I'm sure I'll continue to be engaging, uh, on that with, with people and let people know.
Yeah.
The way that we land each podcast is I have short fill in the blank questions Okay. To ask you, uh, that you can either finish in with a, a word or a short phrase at the end. Okay. Yep. All right.
You ready?
Yep.
Number one, the biggest challenge facing the United States right now is blank.
The greatest challenge for the United States is to win the heart of other countries and maintain our alliance structure in a way that supports us.
Should we evolve into a bipolar world?
looking back on my public service, I'd want people to remember me for blank.
Wow. I, I think just the whole of it, all the 36 years, you know, I gave, uh, like I said before, the majority of my adult life to the country. Uh, there are all the little things that we mentioned earlier, but, um, I think just that Mark Green, you know, gave 36 years of his life and some really tough stuff to, uh, to serve the country.
Hmm.
That's really powerful. Hmm.
Thank you for coming on today. Yeah. Thanks.
I, thanks for having me.
Spence and I went into this not knowing what to expect. And I think in all of the hard we have discussed, you did it exactly as we hoped you would, which was coming forward with authenticity and you were very genuine.
Nothing was off the record. We got to talk about it. And um, I'm just really grateful that you were willing to do that because not just for your constituents and not just for Tennessee, but I think the faith aspect of sharing where we fail and what the Lord does with our next chapters is, um, is kind of the whole point of everything.
Yeah. And so that wasn't easy and I just, um, I wanna take the opportunity to say thank you.
Yeah. Well thank you for saying that. You know, you gotta be wary of the leader who says we can talk about everything, but
yeah.
This other stuff. So, um, it's there. I gotta deal with it and move on and, and try to continue to serve
well, and thanks for 36 years.
Uh, and Mark, from my perspective to, I want to give you a thanks from the bottom of my heart to be here. Uh, your legacy is a really, really important one. You have served this nation and this state in ways that will be remembered for a very long time. And the character of a man is revealed in their hardest moments.
And it's easy to ride when the tide is high, but when the tide goes out, yeah. It's a whole different thing. Yeah. And I really appreciate. Your transparency and authenticity, and I can say, from Carli and I, that we certainly wish you the very best, uh, in this next chapter. and we thank you for spending the time with us here today.
Oh,
thanks for having me. I've enjoyed it.
