Dr. Nidhi Gupta On Tennessee Doctor Leads the Way for Screen Safety
Screens are shaping childhood in ways most parents never connect until something feels off. Dr. Nidhi Gupta joins us for a clear, clinical conversation about screen safety, child development, and what she sees showing up in kids long before families realize technology may be playing a role. She explains why screens are often a symptom rather than the root issue, how device use affects sleep, hormones, behavior, and emotional regulation, and why fear based messaging misses the point. This conversation focuses on earlier awareness, healthier boundaries, and why prevention and education matter more than restriction in a world where screens are not going away.
About Dr. Nidhi Gupta
Dr. Nidhi Gupta is a board-certified pediatric endocrinologist and founder of Phreedom Foundation, a nonprofit dedicated to combating the growing epidemic of screen time-related health issues in children and adults. After 16 years of medical training and practice, Dr. Gupta left what many would call a "dream job" to focus full-time on digital wellness education—a decision driven by what she witnessed daily in her clinic.
As a hormone specialist treating children, Dr. Gupta discovered an undeniable connection between excessive screen time and physical health problems: obesity, pre-diabetes, type 2 diabetes, and hormone disruption. Day after day, she found herself counseling families not just about medical conditions, but about lifestyle, diet, exercise—and overwhelmingly, about screens.
That clinical insight became her mission. Today, Dr. Gupta is a bestselling author of "Calm the Noise: Why Adults Must Escape Digital Addiction First to Save the Next Generation" and a sought-after speaker educating parents, schools, and workplaces on the neuroscience of digital addiction, the power of dopamine, and practical strategies to reclaim real-world connection.
About Phreedom Foundation
Phreedom Foundation (spelled with a "Ph") exists to help individuals and communities learn how to use technology intentionally—as tools for productivity and connection, not as sources of constant distraction, entertainment, and escape.
The foundation operates on the principle that excessive screen time hijacks our hormone systems, particularly dopamine, creating addictive patterns that impact sleep, relationships, mental health, and physical wellbeing. Through educational seminars, workshops, and the signature "Tweak Your Tech" program, Phreedom Foundation empowers people to take control of their digital habits before those habits take control of them.
Phreedom Foundation's work is especially urgent for children and adolescents, whose prefrontal cortex—the brain's executive functioning center—is only 50% formed by age 18. This makes them neurologically vulnerable to the addictive algorithms of social media and gaming. The foundation advocates for delaying smartphone and social media access until at least age 16, and equips families with the tools to navigate these decisions with confidence and community support.
Resources
Phreedom Foundation Website
Book: "Calm the Noise: Why Adults Must Escape Digital Addiction First to Save the Next Generation"
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Spencer: [00:00:00] Welcome to Signature Required. It is intended for Tennesseans by Tennesseans, the heart of a Tennesseean. The volunteer state is serve, and we do so largely without self-promotion.
Carli: And these are genuine people that get up every day and want to make art or want to educate the nations or want to have a heart of love.
In a way that makes a difference.
Spencer: Learn from 50 years of experience, take a nugget away and then go share it with a friend. Dr. Nidhi Gupta. Welcome to Signature Required.
Dr. Gupta: Thank you for having me.
Spencer: You are the founder of Phreedom Foundation. You do a lot of other really interesting things too. Doctor language that if I try to recite here, I'm just gonna like butcher it immediately because, some practices are pronounceable, you know, it's like I'm a pediatrician, like I can handle that.
Yours. I really get tongue twisted on. [00:01:00] So you're super smart. What type of doctor are you?
Dr. Gupta: I'm a pediatric endocrinologist.
Spencer: Okay.
Dr. Gupta: Endocrinology is the signs of hormones and I take care of children with hormone issues.
Spencer: So. That's a really fascinating thing. I got the pediatrician part. Right. For those that have no background of medical or anything else I want to understand that part because what you do in your foundation is a.
Maybe. Maybe there's something related, but it's kind of a sharp departure. So what do you do as a doctor?
Dr. Gupta: So while it seems like what I do at Phreedom Foundation is a sharp departure from my work in endocrinology in 16 years of my medical training, I had never imagined that my paths path of hormone and digital wellness will intersect the way they did.
So what my work in pediatric endocrinology actually became the [00:02:00] catalyst for the formation of Phreedom Foundation to the point where about four years ago, I left what many would call a dream job to focus my attention on the growing epidemic of screen time related health issues that I was seeing in children and their parents.
Not just physical health issues, but mental health issues. And those discussions are happening in my clinic every single day. About 40% families in the United States argue about screen time, and I see that play out in my clinic every day.
The way it works out is excessive screen time completely hijacks over hormone.
That is what got my interest first triggered into digital wellness. Day in and day out, I would see patients with obesity, pre-diabetes, type two diabetes, hormone disruption. At the end of each day, I was wondering to myself, am I practicing pediatric endocrinology or am I practicing lifestyle [00:03:00] medicine?
And because my patients are p. Pediatric patients, they are kids. Not a whole lot of medications exist for some of these conditions, so I found myself counseling them about diet, about lifestyle, about exercising, and about screen time. In order to counsel them up about screen time, I needed to educate myself, and that is where the journey began.
So I'll share with you a couple specific patient cases that drove me away from my dream job and started my journey for Phreedom Foundation. Riley is 17. She has type one diabetes. I was examining her in my clinic one day and I noticed a bed sore on her lower back, and I turned to her mother and I said, Riley has a bed sore.
And I typically do not see bed sore in a healthy young lady. Riley's mother's face froze and tears started pouring down her cheeks. She was like, [00:04:00] Dr. Gupta. How about if I tell you that the minute Riley gets home from school, she rushes up to her room, lays down in her bed, puts her VR headset on, and stays in that virtual word immobilized for the rest of the evening, sometimes even sleeping in that ward.
Spencer: Wow.
Dr. Gupta: More recently, Allison, she's 15. She came to my clinic for evaluation of weight, so that is how my paths with digital wellness are crossing. Nothing to do with digital wellness. What brought her to my clinic evaluation for failure to gain weight through the history of taking process. I asked her, how much time do you spend on your phone every day because what I'm finding is a lot of these health perspectives are eventually connected to screen time. She showed me her phone. She was very willing to share her TikTok feed with me and screen time settings. She's spending about 40 to 50 hours on her phone every day, sorry, every week on screen. And she shrugs her shoulder and she's like, [00:05:00] what's a big deal in that?
My friends spend way more time than that. And I believe her. Yes. Teenagers spend way more time on social media. But Allison is developing signs of eating disorder, largely driven by the content that she's consuming on TikTok. So patients come in to see me for endocrine concerns, and yes, some of them, most of them, majority of them, have genuine endocrine concerns.
But somewhere in during that discussion screen time comes up.
Carli: Can you talk a little bit more, because this is such an issue near and dear to our heart. We have four kids, three tween, teen daughters specifically. You mentioned at the start how hormones are often related to their digital diet, right? Of maybe what they're taking in or how long they're on a device.
I've heard a lot of things about why screens are bad, but I don't think I've ever really thought about the impact on hormones and when you have teenagers in a house. Hormones are a topic of discussion quite a bit. Yes. And [00:06:00] so can you help me like learn more about that link
Dr. Gupta: currently? Generally the discussion around screen time focuses on mental health.
Carli: Yeah.
Dr. Gupta: Anxiety, depression, loneliness,
Carli: eating disorders.
Dr. Gupta: Eating disorders.
Carli: Yeah.
Dr. Gupta: Physical health impact of screen time is something that is not focused so much on. That is where I come in as a pediatrician to shine a light on the fact that it's not just about mental health, it's about physical health as well.
How does it play out? Excessive screen time, completely hijacks hormone system. There is one specific hormone called dopamine. We as a community are becoming increasingly addicted to that dopamine, and there are two main sources of dopamine, number one, screens and number two, processed food. Given the context of our conversation today, I'm going to focus just on screens and how that is hijacking our system.
This is how the whole domino effect plays out.
Spencer: And just one, is there a healthy expression of [00:07:00] dopamine too? Like if like processed foods and screens, how does our body. Get a healthy expression of dopamine.
Dr. Gupta: So dopamine is the anticipation hormone. Think about the anticipation that we might have when we are looking forward to something sugary, salty, spicy notifications.
So anticipation of a reward. Is what makes us produce dopamine. Gambling would be that way. Gambling. Yeah. Right. That is why slot machines have those unpredictable results. You keep going in the hopes of, in the anticipation of, okay, maybe I'll hit a jackpot eventually. So that is how dopamine works, and it is very short lasting.
So as soon as there is an anticipation in the mind, the level of dopamine peaks, it stays high for about two or three minutes, and then it dips. It is addictive. Because it's short lasting, you need more of it. You need frequently, you need it all the time. In order to stay in that state of high, there is the [00:08:00] nemesis of dopamine, serotonin, which is joy, which is mood lifting, which comes from real life human connections, which does not come from consuming the online content.
Serotonin is long lasting. It stays in our body for about four to six hours, so it minimizes the need. For dopamine.
Carli: So you're saying in layman's terms, joy cures dopamine addiction, joy cures the need for anticipation. Exactly. So that's why. If we, for example, like in our real life, if we go on a date night and I'm looking forward to it and we've had just like a really good time, we've laughed, we've come back, I wake up happier the next day, right?
And it's like I don't need to immediately go get a latte and like a croissant. But on days where you don't have that connection or life is busy and we're running 50 to seven different ways, and you haven't had that moment of face-to-face time. All you wanna [00:09:00] do is go to Starbucks and kind of get what you need to fast, quick, burn through that day.
Like that's kind of a real life example. Exactly. But you're seeing this as almost a pandemic amongst youth.
Dr. Gupta: Yes, it is influencing their food choices.
It is influencing their sleep. It is influencing their relationships, basically every aspect of life. So excessive screen time results in sedentary time for obvious reasons.
It also leads to procrastination of physical activity, because you don't get dopamine from physical activity. You do get endorphins from physical activity. But you've got to be intentional about going for those endorphins, which take some effort, then consuming screens before going to bed. Starts a whole another Pandora box of health issues.
So if we are exposing ourselves to blue light before going to bed, it reduces the production of a hormone called melatonin, which helps us go into the deep phases of sleep. So that is one issue. The other issue is the type of content that [00:10:00] we consume before going to bed, which is generally either emails or social media feeds, is stimulating.
It does not help our mind settle into, okay, it's nighttime, I need to power down. It puts our brain into a hyper arousal mode. And we know from. Multiple research studies that absence of good quality and good quantity sleep does not let us make good choices the next day. The biggest kicker in this whole dopamine discussion is dopamine desensitization.
So what does that mean? There was a particular study in adolescence that showed that adolescents who are exposed to significant amount of screen over time, they do not find the screens pleasurable enough. It becomes boring so when it, when they get to that stage, they need something else to get the same level of kick.
In that research study, the researchers found that the adolescents turned to something else to get the same level of kick. What did they turn to? Alcohol. [00:11:00] Drugs, porn.
In my clinic, adolescents are turning to high sugar, high fat, calorie dense, processed food.
Because that is the other source of dopamine that might compete with the type of dopamine that we get from screens.
Carli: So Interesting.
Spencer: I really love the science behind this. Like you do an outstanding job of explaining why. We feel the way that we feel in a way that is understandable. Can you explain just a little further on the endorphins part, because I think I confuse dopamine and endorphins. 'cause if you would've asked me.
The runner's high. I think I would've wrongly said dopamine and I, now that I've heard you say endorphins I think it's that one. Can you just explain that a little bit? Yes. Like the endorphins and how long those last, as it relates to dopamine.
Dr. Gupta: Yes. So there's dopamine, which is short lasting, two to three minutes.
Then [00:12:00] there's serotonin, four to six hours. Endorphins, four to six hours. The runner's high is a combination of endorphins and adrenaline. Okay. Adrenalin is also short lasting, and then there is another one, oxytocin. Okay, so we've got dopamine on one hand and we've got serotonin, endorphins, and oxytocin. On the other hand, we've got to find opportunities to nurture our serotonin and endorphin and oxytocin so that our need for dopamine is minimized over time.
The way I like to think about it it's like we are in a battle. A battle between. Offline joy that comes from serotonin, endorphins, and oxytocin versus online pleasure that comes from dopamine. Joy, and pleasure are two terms that are often used interchangeably.
They are not the same joy, long lasting, real life human connection.
[00:13:00] Let with it stays with you for a longer time. Pleasure, quick. You need more frequently. So we've got to decide who we are going to let win in this battle of offline joy versus online. Pleasure.
Carli: But what's really interesting, especially raising girls, is those things that are long lasting, you said you have to work for, but sometimes they're painful to work for.
Yes. Anyone who's done a Lara squat to get an endorphin knows that is like not pleasant. In the moment, right?
Yes.
Carli: But I even think about relationships and how much connection is around screens. So even if you're trying to get serotonin through face-to-face fun, real world connections with your friends, and you're trying to stop your kid from bringing in a screen.
Everyone else is gonna have a screen. Yes. While they're together. And anybody who's been a teenager knows sometimes those interactions aren't joyful either. Yes. Like teenagers can be really mean, and [00:14:00] so you really have to filter through and go through the hard moments to get those morsels of four to six hours.
I mean, I'm guilty. Sometimes you just want a quick hit of, I need to feel better. This day was really stressful. Like I can relate to that as an adult. How much more my kid must feel that way.
Dr. Gupta: Yes. So it's not about perfection. It's not about completely not going for dopamine. Dopamine helps us thrive. We've got to have some kind of dopamine in our system to keep us going.
We've got to look forward to something anticipation about something, but at certain point, we need systems, balances, habits in place so that we do not get sucked into that word of dopamine while completely ignoring. What else is available out there that actually nurtures of our mind and nurtures of our soul and keeps us healthy and happy and joyful for real, not just temporary.
So the education,
Is super important helping kids understand that [00:15:00] there is joy, there are relationships that can be formed in the offline world, and we don't have to always necessarily rely on online relationships to keep things going for us socially.
Carli: I wanna ask too. You know, we've been very transparent about talking about mental health issues in youth, and I went and sat through some counseling sessions with that.
Were teaching parents about what to do to support the mental health of their children. And it hurt my feelings because the first thing they say, the best thing you can do for your kids' mental health. Is deal with your own. The best thing you can do to serve maybe an anxious child is to deal with your own anxiety and unpack your stuff that could be contributing to theirs.
And so you've done a lot of that in this digital space too, of being willing to educate, but also confront parents with phones. We need to deal with our phones before we can ever expect them to do that. So can we talk about that a little bit?
Dr. Gupta: Yes. And that is what led to. The thought about writing my [00:16:00] book, calm The Noise, why Adults Must Escape Digital Addiction First To Save The Next Generation.
And the way the book came about was from my own very real addiction to my own smartphone.
Spencer: That makes me feel better. That at least you say that for real, man. I tell you. Because if you came and it was like, I've never had this issue, then it's like, gosh, you know, we're just never gonna be Dr. We all doing.
Yep.
Carli: Yep.
Dr. Gupta: So I realized that I had this issue about. Five years ago after I delivered my baby boy. It was June of 2020. The world was raging with COVID. We were all home bound and. I would sit in the rocking chair, breastfeeding my son for up to six or seven hours a day.
Every time I would sit down, my hand would automatically reach for my phone as if my brain is conditioned, robotically, programmed.
To behave like this. This was before I taught digital wellness, and I would find myself strolling strolling instead of. [00:17:00] Just maybe resting being in the presence of my sweet little baby boy. Later, I found out I was behaving this way, not by accident, but by design.
The attention economy is working over time to capture attention of unsuspecting victims like myself.
And once I had the insight that Oh, okay. This is not normal. This is not right. I started making some shifts around my own habits and my own relationship, so to speak with my tech, and then my journey began where to a point where now I strongly feel that screen time is not a kid problem. It is a human problem.
Unless we as grownups repair our fractured relationship with tech, we would not be able to help the next generation. Yes, their brains are rewired by technology, but they were not born with screen addiction.
Way before we gave kids screens, we as adults had [00:18:00] completely entangled ourselves into our own tech in some healthy ways.
And in some unhealthy ways, we find it hard to separate ourselves from our tech. We find. It easy to hide behind the excuse, but I use it for work.
Yes, we use it for work, but it does go uncontrolled frequently. Unless we acknowledge that we would not be able to project healthy digital habits onto our kids.
We find ourselves attached to our devices whether we are working or we are at home in the evening, whether we are driving, whether we are flying vacation. For some people, even when they are in the shower.
While our children are begging for our attention, what is the easiest way out? And I say that with the acknowledgement that I have done this myself in the past, not anymore.
What is the easiest way out? Give kids their own devices, their dopamine. So that everybody [00:19:00] can retreat into their virtual words and there is a pin drop silence in the home. Nobody bothers anybody.
Spencer: It's really interesting as I reflect on the dynamics with screen and understanding the different hormones, one like.
Really, I don't know if it's a most dangerous combination or if it's some health and some danger is that when I show someone a video that I particularly enjoyed, it's like the very highest level of satisfaction because it's a dopamine hit from something that I like. Whatever the content is, but then I create community around it by sharing it and I'm sitting here saying, I can make an argument that there is some healthfulness to that, right?
And I just like to further that, like for our kids, we [00:20:00] really believe that. For social media, that is not something that they should be on until they're at least 16.
So we haven't introduced social media, but the kids will screen record.
Some aspect of social media and will share it. With our kids, and Carli and I looked at each other and it was like, you know, if that wasn't so smart, like we would be, they're hack us mad over that. They're hack us. Yeah.
Carli: They're totally, anytime we post anything, kid, you, not any reel that we're in my daughter's friends, screenshot it, record it, and send it to her, and then she gets trolled.
And then trolls me for anything that we put online. And so part of it is we thought we were doing the right thing. Right? Okay. Maybe there are screens in our house. We try to regulate them. When we say phones down, phones are down, iPads down. We do it more for travel or late evening. Everyone's in sports.
We have family dinner, like we're [00:21:00] trying to set the right boundaries, right. And darn it, if the social media doesn't just tick right in there. But what I'm hearing is that all of these things we've put in place, the thing that we haven't considered is the dopamine hit. Yes. I have not considered that until talking to you today.
And I can see it, and this is something I'm gonna have to process for a long time, saying maybe we need to tweak what we do further. So if anybody's listening like. Oh no, we missed this. Right? Like I'm right there with you. What do we do?
Dr. Gupta: So before we get to the question of what do we do, there is one other piece of child development neuroscience that is critical to understanding this whole dynamic because, you know, countries around the world are working hard to ban social media for kids.
Under 15, for kids under 16 for Australia. Where? Where are those numbers coming from? Where [00:22:00] is this age of 15 and 16 coming from? I don't necessarily agree with 15. I think minimum is 16. Later, even better. But where is that number coming from? It's not a number that is set in stone for a random reason.
It's all backed by neuroscience. So there is a part of the brain called the prefrontal cortex right here. Prefrontal cortex. Prefrontal cortex helps us with executive functioning skills. Executive functioning skills that are relevant to this conversation are self-control, emotional regulation, and to be able to get off screens.
Okay. The interesting part is prefrontal cortex is only about 50% formed by the time an individual is 18 and almost fully formed by mid twenties. So if we are expecting an elementary school kid or a middle school kid to not get trapped by the addictive algorithms of social media, we are setting them up for [00:23:00] failure.
They do not have the right brain parts to be able to get off those devices yet their neurological development hasn't completed yet.
Which is why. Just like you guys, my kids are screen free. They have no social media. We don't even have iPads at home, but yes, their friends do, and that content makes its way to my kids too.
That's where community awareness comes in. Single, isolated, individual families can only do so much to restore their children's childhood, to protect their children's childhood. Eventually it needs massive community level awareness and education where your kids and my kids are not the only ones who are being raised a certain way.
They don't have to feel left out because they are the only ones without social media. And I think we have made a lot of stride in educating communities even in the last seven to 10 years of working in this space. When seven to 10 years, I would tell somebody [00:24:00] I'm doing research about screen time, they will look at me as if I have three heads.
And now when I tell them Phreedom Foundation is about screen time, they're like, oh yeah, we all need it.
The conversation is shifting.
Spencer: It's that community change that just in the last two years we've seen really accelerate because I think that is an important key. Like our schools have gone phone free.
To where they have to put them in pouches. And there's been a lot of discussion about that. Like what does that mean for school safety? How do we counterbalance that with attention in class? And you know, the teachers are overwhelmingly celebrating that no phones are in the class. And we're seeing this evolution that when people make this choice in community, it radically transforms the peer pressure.
That otherwise exists because as soon as someone starts to get access to it, [00:25:00] it's like a virus. It's that spreads to everybody else and then everybody wants it. So I think that really is an important key to say what are the types of changes that we want to see that could also be adapted and adopted by a community.
Dr. Gupta: Yes. Absolutely. So understanding what is the right age for a smartphone or social media. Understanding how much screen time is okay per day based on how old the child is understanding. Does willpower help your child get off their video games and iPads and smartphones? These are. The basic foundational education elements that are critical for communities before they will be motivated or inspired to make a change.
Spencer: So the Phreedom Foundation spelled PH and then Freedom, right? Yes. So Phreedom . [00:26:00] Foundation. Why don't you spend just a moment, and I think I can guess where the name came from and why you changed F to pH, but go ahead and give us that story and then just let us know a little bit about. What we should think or know about that organization?
Dr. Gupta: Phreedom Foundation, spelled with a pH, is a playful twist of on the words phone and Phreedom . Now, just because the name of the foundation is Phreedom , phone Phreedom , the message is not to be completely free of phones or technology. I'm not anti-technology. The message is not anti-technology. The message is pro balance.
The message is to learn and retrain our brains on how to use our devices as tools, not as traps. How to use our devices as tools, not as 24 7 sources of distraction and entertainment.
Not the use of our devices as escape. What do we escape from? We escape from boredom. We escape from [00:27:00] anxiety.
We escape from stress, real life stress, and because of our phones are so readily available, it is easy for us to escape from all the real world conflict and reach for our phones and dissolve our so sorrows and our conflicts. It doesn't go away. The conflict doesn't go away. When we come back into the real world, the conflict is still there waiting for us to handle it.
So over time, we are losing our muscle to deal with real world conflict. So the bottom line behind everything that we do at Phreedom Foundation is to help educate communities. Parents, students, school leaders, and employees in workplaces to learn how to use devices as tools, not as escape, not as entertainment, not as distraction.
And we do that in a variety of ways through educational seminars, through workshops. Tweak Your Tech is our signature [00:28:00] workshop where we actually have people after we have done a, education on why we are doing this. We actually do it. We actually have them bring their devices out and I help them tweak their tech in a way that they take back tech home, which is a tool, not an escape, not entertainment, not distraction.
Spencer: That is so practical. I really love that because if you asked me. How to change any settings on my iPhone. I actually don't know, right? Like I get a weekly report usually on Sundays where it tells me what my average daily screen time is, and I always view that report with like, that's some garbage.
Like there's no way that I spend that amount of time.
Carli: It's so true. Yeah. You kind of hate it. You see it pop up and you're like. Oh, the shame is coming. Shame is
Spencer: coming. Lost my feelings.
Carli: Yeah.
Dr. Gupta: Yeah. So I help people navigate that data in that screen time setting, and it is [00:29:00] eyeopening.
Spencer: Yeah.
Carli: Well, I would like to take this seminar because I'm mad at that data, but I also.
There are things, like you said, that it is a tool. Yes. Like I will listen to books while I clean, or yes, I will research something that I genuinely need for our family, and I just don't feel like that should count towards my screen time because I am being a productive, thoughtful person. You know, maybe my scrolling should count.
Yes. As a point against me, but there are times that you're using it usefully and then it's just a giant shame bucket and you
Dr. Gupta: Right. And
Carli: you're
Dr. Gupta: like, so sure. We are looking at that screen time in a way that it's not inviting shame.
Carli: Yeah.
Dr. Gupta: But is inviting change. Yes. A positive change. That's where I come in.
Carli: How do you do that as a community? How do you do that as a family? So if we sit down this weekend and we're like, okay we're not competitive at all. Are we in the patent household? But who can make the largest delta of change?
Dr. Gupta: Yes.
Carli: Pull it out. Let's see where we're at on things. Is that a fun way to make it [00:30:00] playful and competitive?
Like who can minimize the most? Is it. More systemic, like how, who can get the most friends on board to do it with you? What is the way that we could playfully do this with ages six to 14? Yes. That we're dealing with.
Dr. Gupta: So you would go into your iPhone. So we are getting into the logistics of how to actually implement it.
Carli: Yeah.
Dr. Gupta: Go into these settings. Screen time and then click on see all app and website data. Right? If you had your phones right now, I would have shown you exactly how to do it.
Carli: We left them outta here just because Yeah,
Dr. Gupta: we
Carli: were, we were for conversation. Not gonna have them in for this conversation. So there you go.
Dr. Gupta: So click on see all app and a website data and that will take you to your weekly average. Okay. Not just today's average. Today's average might be 15 minutes because the day hasn't finished yet. So we want to look at the previous week's average and the week before. So that gives us the average for the last four weeks.
Once we [00:31:00] wrap up our head around six and a half hours or seven hours a day of daily screen time. Time to move on. Then on the topic, it will tell you your most three commonly used apps. That is where I invite people to pause.
If those three apps are entertainment, video games, streaming channels, shopping online, or anything else that is not uplifting, but engulfing, would you consider deleting those apps?
That is where the first biggest change comes in, and this is something that I build up. This is not something that is the first thing I say to an audience when I speak to them.
Before I get to this point, I have shared with them the neuroscience of brain development. I've shared with them the entire science behind dopamine and endorphins shared with them the importance of finding joy in real life.
They're [00:32:00] primed to hit that delete button.
Once they hit that delete button, it's like, what will I do with my free time?
Spencer: Yeah.
Dr. Gupta: That's where it's important to think about what is it that I wish I had time for? What is that one hobby that I enjoyed that I no longer have time for? Let's bring those elements back into our life.
Spencer: Dr. Gpa. Something that's helped me. That I don't know if you've seen success with this is I have moved my apps. From the home screen. And I think the iPhone allows you to create four different screens if you
Dr. Gupta: Yes.
Spencer: Slide over. And I don't have four screens worth of apps, but I've moved them all the way over to the fourth screen.
Dr. Gupta: Yes.
Spencer: And that's done two things for me. One, that notification bubble, that little red bubble. There's an achiever deep down in me that I don't like notification [00:33:00] bubbles on my screen. Like I'm not the guy that. You can tell a lot about a person by how many emails are on their list because yes, it's part of you know, I, it should be part of my interview questions that I'm gonna ask HR to do.
It's like if you open up your email and there's 3,413 unread emails there I'm gonna judge you. Is that No, I'm just kidding. But anyway, moving the notification where I don't even see that little red icon has really helped. And then also there's this moment that. As I'm thinking about am I going to pull up some type of social media app, I do have to go through and scroll four times, and it just gives an extra half beat to say, do I want to do this?
Is this a good decision or should I do something else? And so it's at least helped me to be able to just get it off that home screen.
Dr. Gupta: You speak very much to the four foundational steps of digital wellness [00:34:00] that I outline in Calm the noise number one, turn off non-essential notifications.
Spencer: Yeah.
Dr. Gupta: And that includes badges.
The little red icon, you have a way to turn them off so you don't even see them. They're red for a reason.
They're attention grabbing. Yes. Right. So turn off all of the dings, the buzzes, the chimes. Just keeping the phone call on ringer and maybe something else that is super important.
Turn off the noise, calm the noise. Turn off non-essential notifications. Number two, physically separating yourself from your devices for about 30 to 90 minutes while awake. Cutting the cord not being constantly tethered to over technology. Why 30 to 90 minutes? Well, that's about one 10th. Over waking hours.
I think we can do that. I can, I think we can separate ourselves from over tech for one 10th of a day
Spencer: and I'll just speak to that too. When I do that, I literally will feel [00:35:00] phantom vibrations. Yes. From my phone on my leg. Do you have that
Carli: happen too? It's or my watch. Yes. I'll feel it on my wrist when there's nothing there.
Dr. Gupta: Yes. Yeah. Yes. That is very real. A lot of people experience that. If you find any soli in knowing that you are not the only ones who dealing with
Carli: that. Well, lemme ask you this. We were having this debate just at home. I go between an Apple watch and a regular, normal person watch. Right? My problem is we have four kids that are in 107 activities, so one way we get them off screens is they're all in sports or theater, real life connections, and it's worked really well for our family to give them these new opportunities to feel capable and try hard things.
But then as a mom, I feel like I am the cruise director and I have to make sure everyone is where they need to be. Yes. With what they need. And so when I take off my Apple Watch and I set my phone down, I come back to it every 15 minutes or so, if I'm running around doing something, [00:36:00] but I miss calls, I miss important things that I feel like are, is my job to do.
And so I have this really hard tension between. If my job as a mom is to keep everybody safe and where they need to be, but I know for my own mental health I need to te untether. How do you navigate that
Dr. Gupta: learning to use your Apple watch as a tool?
The one of the most common examples that I share is that of a butter knife.
We use a butter knife to spread butter, and then we put it away. We do not walk around the house with a butter knife in our hand,
Carli: except maybe I should try it and freak my kids out.
Dr. Gupta: Right. That would be great. Exactly. We use it as a tool. Same for devices, whether it is smart watches or smartphones, looking in the at them as tools.
So if they're sitting away in a corner, that's sneaky Devil on standby will always get to you. Like, lemme just check, maybe I missed something. Maybe I missed something. That's [00:37:00] where intentionality in curbing that craving of dopamine comes in. You've got to talk back to your brain. I just checked it 10 minutes ago.
It's going to be okay.
Nothing has changed. I've already checked the weather 10 times today. I'm sure nothing new has changed. I've already read the news. Five times already. It's okay. I just checked on my kids. It's okay. So being constantly tethered within in the form of smart watches or smart devices, if it is making us anxious, then it's important for us to think about is it worth it?
Is it making me more connected to my kids or is it making me anxious? Because remember, at the end of the day, if I'm anxious. I'm going to project that anxiety onto my kids.
If it is hard for me to navigate my life without a smartwatch, at some point, I would project that feeling onto my kids.
How can they navigate their life without a smart device? They can do just fine. When we were younger. We were in a lot of activities too. Maybe [00:38:00] not as many as kids these days are, but we managed, our parents managed. One of the fears that we have in our minds at this time is the fear of the physical word.
Fear of something happening to the kids, getting kidnapped, accident, physical dangers. Because we grew up fearing those physical dangers.
Spencer: That's really true.
Dr. Gupta: Silver Brain is primed to fear those physical dangers. We did not grow up fearing the dangers of the online word, the predators, the scammers.
The groomers, the bullying. We did not face that as kids. Silver brain naturally prioritizes the dangers of the physical world in that process, unintentionally, a lot of us are exposing our kids to the dangers of the online world. To keep them safe from the dangers of the physical world. What we know from research and data is that the physical world is a much safer place than it used to be in the past.
Carli: But it doesn't feel [00:39:00] like it.
Dr. Gupta: It doesn't feel like it, it
Carli: know because of how much we are tethered, how much we know, how much
Dr. Gupta: we know.
Carli: I didn't ever have the news on as a kid, so, and nobody was getting pops, you know, on their devices and now. We're getting emails left, right, and center of every school that could possibly be in lockdown in the state.
Yes. Yes. And so it does, if, even if the data is saying it's getting safer, your mom heart feels like it's worse. And I also think there's something about how all these reels and algorithms work when we're talking about parents trying to untether, is they prey on that fear.
Dr. Gupta: They do.
Carli: And there's this kind of.
I know I can't be the only one that feels like if something happened to my kid, it's my fault.
Dr. Gupta: Yes.
Carli: I didn't protect them, I didn't anticipate it. I didn't educate myself. I didn't have the right tech in their hand that they could have used to get out of the situation. So you have, the more resources we have in this day and age to, for technology and information.
The more I [00:40:00] feel like I should be doing, and then it feels like it's more risky. And so it does feel like this, the, what is the opposite of dopamine? This like terror spiral that tech causes and solves.
At the same time, and I know I'm not alone in it, but it is tricky to put your feet in the ground and say, no, I won't be on this rollercoaster anymore.
Dr. Gupta: It takes effort, it takes persistence. It is doable. You've got to find a community.
Only then it's doable. But I will speak to the fact that yes, the algorithms are designed to capitalize on our anxiety, on our fear. And to that Oxford's word of the ear for 2025 is rage bait.
Carli: Yeah.
Dr. Gupta: Wage bait.
Defining the content that gets most likes, most engagement content that makes us angry, content that makes us frustrated. It's hard to believe what we read and see in [00:41:00] news these days because for every piece of news, there are two versions floating around a version that you want to see and the version that you need to see there is no way we will be able to ever figure out which one is the honest, true version.
The algorithms. Figure out which side we are on and to feed us content to reinforce our beliefs so that we stay in a filter bubble.
Not what we need to know, but what we want to know. So recognizing and having that insight into, okay, this is capitalizing on my fear. The word is fine. It is safe.
I do not have to project my anxiety and my fear onto my kids. They will be okay. It will be okay, helps, but it takes time. I'm not there yet. I'm not perfect yet. I have two little kids. I'm navigating this just like you, just like everybody else who is listening to this conversation. I'm right there.[00:42:00]
It's a daily conversation in my head. It's a daily conversation in my work too. So. Our only saving grace is to come together and have this conversation together so we can brainstorm together.
Carli: Have you gotten any feedback that surprised you? Like when you're clearly coming forward with true data based on how the brain and the body is wired and you're presenting?
I can't imagine that everyone's sunshine and rainbows when you're sharing this. What's some of the feedback that surprised you the most from people?
Dr. Gupta: So most recently, I was speaking at a school in Brentwood. And after the first and education session, one of the parents asked me that. Based on what you are describing, it doesn't sound like there is a gray zone.
It's all or none. Where did that come about? Because when I talk about what is the right age for S for smartphone, I always tell yes. I get asked all the time, what is the right age for a smartphone? Somehow nobody has ever asked me what is the right age for [00:43:00] alcohol.
And the way I see it, the content that kids are consuming online is doing the same, dare I say, worse for their mind and for their body.
That's where the parents very concerned. Parents' genuine question came about because he's like, because I wouldn't give my child a pint of vodka. How can I give them just a little bit of social media?
And I agree with him. There is no little bit of social media. It is a trap. It is a trap that once you get in, it's very hard to get off.
It is a slippery slope. It is that train that once you board, you cannot get off. So if. People who are listening to this conversation. If you have kids who you have not yet introduced to smartphones and to social media, please find a way to educate yourself on the right age for a smartphone and social media.
Please educate yourself on the right amount of time, screen time per day, because once you make that call
There's no going back.
Spencer: Dr. Gupta, you're in an amazing [00:44:00] spot as. A pediatrician. Endocrinologist. Nailed it. You got it, Spencer. Nailed it. I mean, what an incredible time to be doing what you do.
I mean, the intersection of so much, because this whole conversation is different. If you removed the pediatrician aspect to this, and we're just focusing on adults because, you know, said, you said it very eloquently earlier, said more crassly like. These kids are brain damaged until they're 25 years old, right?
Their brains are not fully formed, and I'm definitely gonna use this with my daughters on the guys that they date, like when they're dating 16 and 18, be like his brain is only 50% there. And I know that's not medically accurate and not what you said. But I'm rolling with it anyway because
Carli: I'm sure that'll land.
Spencer: Yeah, I'm sure
Carli: they'll love
Spencer: that. You know, their pre prefrontal cortex is, you know, 50% there. But anyway, I think you're [00:45:00] just in an amazing moment and I so appreciate the voice that you're giving because. You could speak in such a way that would be a shame forward message. You could speak very clinically and talk over and around all of us, and instead, I think you bring a real heart to it that even here in this episode you say.
This was me five years ago and I still deal with these temptations, and I just really appreciate that you're spending your time not just as a doctor, but. As a colleague, as a friend, as someone that gets it and that's just a really appreciated message because there's a lot of people that I think will talk about these issues and it's already so charged, [00:46:00] and all of us as parents carry a weight and a responsibility that.
We don't need a finger poked in our eye over it. But we do need help. And that's also the part that I think is, so, if there's one major takeaway, the education of what to do in the iPhone settings like that in and of itself is very powerful. Because prior to hearing, I wouldn't have even been able to tell you where to go to address the screen time, things like that.
I could learn the top three apps of where I spend my time. I sit here now, like I actually don't know what they would be. I could guess, but there's probably like six or seven different apps that could be on there that I would maybe say, okay, I'd take a look at it. So
Dr. Gupta: yes.
Spencer: Thank you.
Dr. Gupta: Of course.
Spencer: We end every podcast with a short fill in the blank exercise.
So I'll read you a short prompt with a blank in it. If you'll just [00:47:00] repeat the prompt to me and then fill in the blank with a word or a short phrase that you think completes the thought. Okay. All right. Number one, healthy digital habits start when adults blank.
Dr. Gupta: Healthy digital habits start when adults role model those habits for their children.
Spencer: Yeah. Yeah. Number two, digital wellness is really about protecting blank.
Dr. Gupta: Digital wellness is really about protecting your body, mind, and soul.
Spencer: Big stakes.
Dr. Gupta: Big stakes.
Spencer: And number three, technology impacts child development most by affecting blank
Dr. Gupta: technology affects child [00:48:00] development most by causing irreversible changes in their neurodevelopment.
Spencer: Thank you so much for the time. I come away from this feeling really encouraged. I feel like I have some things to be able to go and do. And that's important. Yes. Because it's easy to come away from this conversation feeling defeated or feeling like it's too late or.
Again, shame over it. Yes. And so I just really appreciate the thoughtful approach to the topic, and it's been a real treat to have you here. Thank you, Dr. Gupta.
Dr. Gupta: Thank you, Spencer. Thank you. Thank you, Spencer. Thank you, Carli. Thanks for having me.
Spencer: Dr. Nitty Gupta of the Phreedom Foundation. It's a really great conversation. About a sensitive topic, which is screen time and dopamine. And the [00:49:00] addiction that comes from that. She did what we see so many guests do, which is educate.
And that is the mark of someone that really has a servant's heart.
Is if they come here and preach just to get on their tower to say, here's how it should be done. That really doesn't serve anybody. But instead she came with a real vulnerability, a humility to say, here's what I've experienced in my own life. Which by the way, I also see in lots of the people that I treat.
But she even took it a step further of saying, here are tools and ways that I've been able to start the journey of addressing this issue.
Carli: Yeah. I think our big takeaway, we were kind of talking a moment ago, is the notification. Issue and her ability to say, Hey, go on, [00:50:00] see where you're spending all your time.
Can you delete it or can you remove notifications from these different apps? And it makes me laugh. We just moved recently and it's like when you move, there are all these app. That your house can give you. And you even teased me and like you said, all our stuff, it's like the oven has an app and the laundry machines have apps.
And it's like, I really don't need to be buzzed when the dryer's done. Like if anything, that just makes me annoyed. And so I think that we have homework our own selves to be like, what are we getting buzzed with that we don't need? And then I really do wanna think more strategically 'cause we have some good groundwork.
Done with the kids of like what our boundaries are. And if you ask them, they are not allowed on so many things and it's the worst and we're the most strict. But then you sit in conversations, you think there is so much room for improvement. And I think what I learned today was we're never [00:51:00] gonna fully arrive in this world with this issue.
Tech changes too fast. Like we're never just gonna get to a place where like, oh, we have achieved utopia. But I do think that we can constantly try to improve, and I do think the more we know, the more courage I have to say like, no, this isn't good. No,
Spencer: I think having family intentionality around. This topic is also just as important.
Carli: Yeah,
Spencer: because when you think about it, there are lots of families that make decisions related to, for example, what food is gonna be in the house. And our family, we find a good middle balance, like we are not hardcore to where there's no processed food, there's no sugar. There are plenty of families that do that, and that works for them, and they're intentional about it.
We're intentional about no social media until certain ages, but clearly we're [00:52:00] to the more lenient side than Dr.
Gupta's household. Which is gonna say. No screens, and it's not even a discussion, and I just think that there's room on the spectrum that makes it feel doable and achievable. But I just think making that choice is a huge part of the equation is that you're doing so intentionally.
Carli: I totally agree, but I also think.
I learned new things today.
About the dopamine response. Like we all know phones are addictive and screen time and the algorithms get you, but I learned new things about how the hormones work in our bodies and why I wanna pick up my phone every time I, at a red light, I have this twitch, which is the most unsafe.
I fight it and I put it away. But why do I want that response so much throughout the day? So I learned a little bit about myself and I have some like thought that I need to do around that, but I've also learned around, okay, now that we know this. [00:53:00] I think it would be healthy to evaluate where are we? And even talk to the kids like they need to know because like it or not, they're gonna be driving soon.
They're gonna be making a lot of these choices absent of us. And so we're at this stage of parenting, maybe with Sully, our little guy like we can make these hard and fast thoughts, but we're getting into this like. Teaching them to teach themselves phase where I don't wanna miss the opportunity to evaluate as a unit and give them those critical life skills of evaluating, Hey, is what we're doing healthy?
I'm wondering that for myself. Are you.
