Josh Burch on Career Transitions for U.S. Special Forces
Josh Burch, Director of People at the Honor Foundation and a retired U.S. Army Green Beret, joins Spencer and Carli to share his remarkable journey from rural Tennessee to serving 16 deployments in Special Operations. In this episode, Josh discusses how the Honor Foundation helps transitioning veterans find purpose and fulfillment in civilian life by translating their military experience into valuable career opportunities. He reflects on the sacrifices of military families, the power of mentorship, and the importance of community. With stories of grit, resilience, and service, this conversation sheds light on the challenges veterans face and the transformative work of the Honor Foundation.
About Josh Burch
Josh Burch serves as the Director of People at The Honor Foundation (THF) and is a retired U.S. Army Green Beret with 26 years of distinguished service in the Special Forces. At THF, Josh leads efforts to empower Special Operations Forces personnel during and after their military careers, preparing them to excel as corporate and community leaders.
As a graduate of the Career Recon program, an intensive transition workshop, Josh also advises the Nashville Area Chamber of Commerce on workforce initiatives for veterans and military spouses. Known for his leadership and problem-solving expertise, he is dedicated to mentoring future leaders and creating meaningful opportunities for fellow veterans transitioning to civilian life.
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Spencer 00:35
Josh Burch, Director of people at the Honor Foundation. Welcome to signature required. You are a retired US Army Special Forces Green Beret who now serves at the Honor Foundation. That's a pretty impressive opening lead in. I feel like anytime you go with Green Beret, there's always intrigue of what you've been up to. So maybe just take us a second and walk us through what the Honor Foundation is, and then we'll dig into some of your story.
Josh Burch 01:14
The Honor Foundation is a transition program specifically designed for special operations. So for those who are not familiar with special operations, you have Special Operations Command SOCOM. There's a lot of video games and things out there that talk about SOCOM. But under SOCOM, you have Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine, and all the special operations functions within underneath them. So we serve everyone in the Special Operations community here at the campus that I work for in Tennessee, we service the soldiers at Fort Campbell, Kentucky. So that's fifth Special Forces Group, and the 1/60 Special Operations Aviation Regiment.
Spencer 01:55
Help us know more for Special Operations Special Forces does that span every branch of the military.
Josh Burch 02:02
Each branch has their own special operations, but special forces the title it gets. I'm always asked, like, Are you a Navy SEAL? Like, no, I'm. I'm a Special Forces soldier, a Green Beret. Green Beret is the hat we wear. The Special Forces tab is the Insignia that we get when we graduate the course. But Navy has their special operations, which is Navy SEALs. You have the Air Force. They have compact controllers, and then they have special operations aviators, and then marine have their marine special operations. So Special Forces is the the word Special Forces is, you know, unique to Army and the Green Beret, okay?
Spencer 02:48
So your focus is on Special Forces, uniquely within the Army. Is what the Honor Foundation.
Josh Burch 02:54
The Honor Foundation covers all branches of special operations. It started with Navy SEALs, okay? And then when our CEO came on, Matt Stevens, he worked with Green Berets and Rangers and marine special operations when he was in Tampa. And he said, why aren't we, you know, looking to take this to all special operations. And then since then, his goal has been to take it to all of DOD, which we launched another program this past year as a pilot, and we went full time in January of this past year, in 2024 it's called vector accelerator, which serves all of DOD. It's a self paced course, but DoD is Department of Defense, yeah, sorry, no, yeah. I've still learned, you know, some of the, yeah, yeah. You know, acronyms as part of the program. And, you know, it's, it sticks with us. And I've learned also that there's just as many acronyms in the civilian world that I've had to, you know, become accustomed to.
Carli 03:55
So it started with special forces. I think, like you said, there's video games and movies. Everyone's a little bit obsessed with what a Green Beret does. Is there a special type of training that you feel like special forces coming out of the military need to enter civilian life different than perhaps somebody that wasn't in Special Forces? Is it a different program?
Josh Burch 04:19
Yeah. Oh, that's a great question. So I've kind of explained it this way. When I enlisted in the military, I was a combat engineer 12 Bravo, which is explosives and demolition, not special forces. I was in the army, it took about 90 days to make me a baseline combat engineer, that could go to a unit, and then, you know, be mentored to do my job, to become a Special Forces soldier. It took me an additional two years of assessment, selection, detailed training, you know, on a specific job, specific career. You work as a small team. You. Learn a language. I learned Arabic, and then you
Carli 05:04
you learn Arabic in less than two years.
Josh Burch 05:06
Well, it's six months of all day, eight to five, and then at night. You know, training Arabic, immersion, immersion. It really is, and it's important in special operations, because, you know, we are, you what you see in the movies and the video games is only like 5% of what we do really, what we are is we, you know, we use relationships and understanding a culture to go into countries and have them help themselves, and, you know, you know, maintain national security. So, yeah, but back to the original question is, you know, so it took that two and a half years to make us a special operator, and then for our whole career, we're told, you know, you know, quiet professional, you know, don't talk about what you do. Well, now you're going into a world where you have to talk about what you do. You have to be able to express how you're going to provide return on investment to an employer, or if you're starting a business, you have to be able to in order to get a loan, you're gonna have to be able to tell them, how is this business going to make money? You know, what's, what's the bottom line?
Spencer 06:07
Gotta walk somebody through your resume able to 100 articulate what you've done well, without bragging on yourself. That's something that's a long ways away from what you've been trained to do.
Josh Burch 06:18
One thing that you know, we kind of take for granted in the military too, is I'm so accustomed to walking into a room in my uniform, having my name, you know, the schools I've been to, the unit, I'm a part of the deployment, you know, combat deployment patches. And that really is, you know, a summary of who I am. So at a quick glance, I can tell who you are and what you've done. And now we're going into a world where I walk in like this, who is this person? Yeah, you know, it took some getting used to because we, you know, you hear you'll hear me say, we a lot, and we teach our fellows not to do that, but we don't like taking credit for anything that we've done, we like to see as a member of a team, and how we've, you know, done things as a team. And you know, it's, it's difficult because you feel like you're bragging. You feel like you're, you know, just felt dirty when I'm talking about me as an individual and accomplishments. But you know, it's, it's really about the people who are left and right, who have helped us through this.
Carli 07:23
I'd love to know a little bit about your story. How did you end up serving in the military, doing so, we were talking 26 years in the military, 16 deployments, right? How did you get there?
Josh Burch 07:37
You sure you want to hear this story? Well, I was born and raised right here in the great state of Tennessee, Middle Tennessee. Manchester is where I call home. My parents and I, we've moved to Chattanooga. My dad's programmer. My mom worked at a bank, and my grandparents still have the farm. My grandmother still lives there today, in Middle Tennessee, and I was, you know, looking back, you know, I was able to learn a little bit about the, you know, the hustle bustle, time management in the city life and the networks and in the rural America. I was able to learn, you know, spend time my grandparents, you know, sense of community and, you know, coming together to help one another. Because, you know, like hay has to get put up before it rains. Or, you know, we're making, you know, food train for someone at church that you know, you know, became ill or is going through something. And you know, so it was a, it was a good mix. You know, push forward a few years, you know, I was 17 years old, and I asked my dad. I said, you know, I need tell you something, but you gotta promise not tell my mom. And he said, Okay, well, you know, what do you got? I said, Well, my girlfriend's pregnant, and you know, I don't know what to do. And he said, Okay, well, first I want you to rethink what you just told me. And how am I not supposed to tell your mother this. But that just, you know, kind of shows you where my head placement was at that age and subsequent. Decisions didn't get really any better. You know, I elected to drop out of high school because I wanted to start earning wage so I could pay for insurance and, you know, you know, provide for my son. And, you know, I job hopped for a little bit. I mean, I did a little bit of everything construction. I was, you know, on a framing crew. Went to a sawmill and was and was working, you know, pulling, you know, giant logs off of these conveyor belts. And then I just elected to do an apprenticeship with an auto body and paint. And after spending, you know, a few months with people who had, you know, literally been in a paint booth their entire life, I'm like, I don't think there's much of a health future for me, if I say in this career. You know, love people that do those things, but that's that is, is very difficult. So one. Summer I was, you know, working with my grandfather on the farm. And, you know, he, he was working me, you know, we were putting in fence posts and pulling wire because he was separating his pastures for the cattle. And he asked me, said, you know, Josh Amber, I want you to sit down on my truck. He's like, I was reading my Bible this morning. I don't know, here comes. Yeah, I'm about to get a lecture from Granddaddy. But, you know, I listen to my grandfather, I had a lot of respect for him. And he said, I know, I know you think I'm a good person, but he's like, but I'm not. He's like, I've surrounded myself with people who inspired me to be a better version of me. And he said, you know, in Proverbs, 2717, As iron sharpens iron, one man does another. He said, I encourage you to join the service, you know, just to, you know, surround yourself with some people who help you become best version of you that you can be for this son. Next week, I was at the recruiting office, and wow, you know, it took a little time for me to get in, but once I did, made it through basic and a it, and I got to my first duty station, and that's where I learned what that other piece of iron was like. You know, iron, sharpen. Iron is not an easy task, and it came in the form of, you know, a career long mentor. I still stay in touch with him. He was at my retirement, retired Sergeant Major Joe Fancher, who I met at 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum, New York. And, yeah, and, you know, so that that brought me into the military, and I really learned the difference there of being mentored by default person being mentored by design. You know, by default, is just allowing your the people who are around you, to affect who you are, without any sort of thought or without any sort of design. You know, and you know, as my grandfather was mentioning, is like surround myself with people who will inspire me to be better.
Spencer 11:56
That reminds me of a phrase is that you are the average of the five people that you spend the most time around, absolutely, and I think it's amazing as part of your story, sitting on the back of the truck with your grandfather, and he was giving you some counsel to say, hey, go do this. And the fact that you responded and did so immediately shows that even through a series of searching and tough choices, you remained coachable and teachable. And that's something that I think a lot of people lose in difficulty, is they say there's nothing for me here. Everything that I've been trying doesn't work. And so to heck with what anybody has to say for me, I'm gonna do it my way, and then, you know, that's a way to really find rock bottom, is to go that path. Yes, I think that's really an interesting part of the story. But keep going.
Josh Burch 12:54
No, well, so I spent two years at Fort Drum New York, and the lesson I learned there was, I would rather mow my yard every day than wake up at four o'clock and shovel snow.
Josh Burch 13:11
I'm not. I was like, I've got to get back to the south. But no, it was a great I can drive in the snow Now, unlike most of the folks here in Tennessee, but you know, it was a, it was a great, it was great for me to separate myself from where I grew up and the people, because I wasn't necessarily hanging around the right crowd. You wouldn't have even wanted me in this room if I would have continued on that path. But, you know, I deployed to Bosnia. That was my first deployment in 1998 and during that deployment, I re enlisted to come back to Fort Campbell, Kentucky. In route, I went to Ranger School, and, you know, I really have been at Fort Campbell pretty much ever since. So I served in the 100 and first. So I've served in two of the three units at Fort Campbell. You know, if you got the major unit, tenant units, you have the 101st, airborne division, fifth Special Force group, and 1/60 so I was pre Ranger instructor. Used that as an opportunity to train up to go to Special Forces selection. I was always trying to find, you know, what's next? Where? Where are the next group of five that I want to surround myself with? And I had done some training with special forces, you know, that at a range at Fort Campbell one time, and I was like, Man, I want to be a part of these folks. So I actually went to Special Forces Assessment three times. First two times I'd injured myself and then, and I was heartbroken, because I like, I made it to the very end the first time, and then I came back. I didn't let myself recover. I came back too early, because I wanted to get it done. And the doc, I remember him at the. Area, and he's like, Listen, you have no chance of getting selected if you're not here on the last day. He's like, Who are you in competition with? Because most of the time I was trying to run ahead of everyone in the pack, and I went off off the major road and and twisted my ankle pretty bad on some tree falls. It was early in the morning on a ruck march, and he's like, you're not in competition with anyone. They just want to see that you're consistent and that you try. He's like, but you'll never get selected if you're not here at the end. So I took that to heart. Went back to my unit, trained up, you know, did a proper train up, and went back. And that was my goal. Was just to be there on the end and let the cards fly where they were they may. So I was going to continue to go back until they told me otherwise. But I'm grateful that I had opportunity. Went through the Q course at Fort Bragg, the qualification course for Special Forces. Was originally selected as a 18 Bravo, which is a weapons sergeant, and then Arabic, which each Special Forces Group have an area of responsibility. So ours is predominantly in the Middle East, and we've been busy for the last 20 plus years, and we have soldiers continue to deploy
Spencer 16:21
The Middle East has been busy for the past couple 1000 years,
Josh Burch 16:23
Exactly. Yeah, no, you're spot on that. And that's a lot of what folks don't understand is like, why haven't things changed in 20 years? It's like they haven't changed in 1000s of years. It's going to take a lot. I feel like.
Carli 16:37
What you're saying is such a metaphor for life. You know, our pastor always says, just keep showing up. Yeah, you don't know what's going to be to the left or the right. You don't know what's coming, but all you can control is to just show up. And I love how you said that, because, you know, we have tweens at home, and I feel like there's so much comparison culture right now. Like you said, you wanted to run ahead right and you twist your ankle. And I think that's applicable even to my tween daughters. It's like they're looking to their left and right and trying to see how they can be the biggest and the boldest. And you want to shine in the giftings you've been given, but half the battle is just surviving to the end. Yeah, maybe more than half.
Josh Burch 17:19
Oh, yeah. I mean, I just recently read a book, because we have, I have a son and a daughter, and my wife, they're both out of the house. My daughter works at deer run here in labors fork, and then my son works at St Thomas West as a nurse. But it was called the anxious generation, and it's talking about how, you know, comparing yourself to people around you. And really, that's, you know, what I was doing and when I was going through assessment selection was comparing myself and where I like compared to the people around me, versus controlling what I could control, which is who I am and what I'm doing, and, you know, just staying on the path and making it to the very end. So it really was unique. And then, after the course, I went to fifth Special Forces Group here at Fort Campbell had several deployments, and I elected to assess for Warrant Officer, which I became a Warrant Officer, which your assistant detachment commander in your first position, and really you're an advisor to the commander at all levels, and retired as a chief horn officer force. It's kind of like a COO would be like an advisor to the CEO on the operation side. You're the continuity you've been in the organization for a while. As commanders rotate out, you just keep the ship moving forward. And I really enjoyed that, that aspect.
Carli 18:49
So how did you end up? I feel like, after being in service for so long, it's got to be really intimidating to come out and try to figure out, Okay, what's next? You have a couple of kids. They might be grown, but you still have kids in a life that you want to lead, and you know, you're still young and healthy. How did you end up where you are today?
Josh Burch 19:13
Well, it was, you know, purely a God thing in my opinion, at 17 years, 18 years, I had told my Command Chief Warrant Officer at fifth stress force group that I wanted to retire, and he brought me in. And I'd recently had a friend who had retired and was doing contract work where they go back overseas, and he was killed while he was on terminal leave, and knew I didn't want that route, you know, I'm like, if I'm going to continue to go overseas and be away from my family, I might as well stay in the army, where I have medevac of Air Force, you know, all the, you know, the assets that we bring to the table. And he said, You know, I'd come up with a plan. So the only plan that that I could come. Up with and speaking with my wife is like, we can control our budget. So we were Dave Ramsey and Dave Ramsey, like our mission was to understand, you know, like I saw my friends retire, they go buy a new truck, buy a new boat, buy all this stuff, and then it's like, well, now you got to afford that. So we were like, we're going to pay everything off that we can so that we know that we can live comfortably with our retirement and whatever work I could pick up. And my wife is a dental hygienist. She works as well. So that was the plan. And I hit 26 years. I was actually going to stay till 30. I was looking to go. My body told me it was time I needed a total hip replacement. And when I made that, you know that that decision, you know the Army provides you a six month period where or four to six month period where you can do an internship paid for by the military, you still receive your paycheck with a company, and I wasn't really going to do anything with it, but I ran into a gentleman who was former commander of mine, Scott Brower, who is really behind the scenes of everything that's veteran and spouse initiatives in the state of Tennessee. I'm pretty sure he currently is director for the bass Scholars Program at Vanderbilt, but he the Governor made him the like COVID czar. I don't remember what the official title was, but during COVID, you know him, and his sergeant major, Mario V Hill, you know, helped with the planning and the crisis management during COVID. And the governor saw the value in the veterans and how they were problem solving and, you know, like, Oh, we're running out of bed space. Well, there's a gymnasium, there's your bed space. So, you know, just being able to adapt and problem solve. So the state started working this initiative. I came down to a couple meetings that I was invited to, just to kind of hear, and opportunity came up to do my internship with the Nashville area Chamber of Commerce. Ralph Schultz, current CEO, is the, also the civilian aide to the Secretary of the Army. So he works recruiting and, you know, spouse and veteran initiatives here in Middle Tennessee. So I said, Sure, why not? I don't plan on working. I'm going to hunt and fish my life away so and, you know, started helping with the chamber, you know, with a community that I've been a part of for 20 plus years at Fort Campbell, you know, 101st fifth group, and 1/60 and then you had an existing network called the Nashville area Chamber, where all these businesses, you know, like, invest to be a part of, like, Well, all I have to do is connect the dots. And started doing that through Nashville business leader visits to Fort Campbell. And what we would do is take them up there, you know, we we lure them in with a helicopter ride, and go into that'll get them every time.
Carli 22:59
Oh, yeah, all it takes is a helicopter ride. You can get anywhere you want.
Josh Burch 23:04
Yep, and then we end the day at the spouse's Career Center and Transition Assistance Office, which is, you know, really kind of putting the connective tissue together where it's like, Hey, here's opportunities. There's people who are looking to work, and we have a workforce deficit here in Middle Tennessee, about, you know, 50,000 you know, at any given time. And if you employed everyone who is unemployed, you still have about a 35,000 deficit. So it's, you know, there's jobs available. We ran a, you know, just a survey through the transition office to kind of see where and why soldiers were leaving the state. The main reason was connection and job availability. Was like, there's jobs available. Why are they leaving? So there was communication gap. And we noticed, you know, with all the growth here in Middle Tennessee, you have businesses coming in from out of town who aren't familiar with the area. So if you mentioned Fort Campbell, Kentucky, it might as well be eight hours away when it's actually only a 45 minute drive, and a lot of those folks would commute. So yeah, close that gap. And as I was working with honor foundation, I had several mentors back to coachability. Several mentors tell me that I should go through this program called the Honor Foundation. And at first, I was like, I don't need it unless they're, you know, telling me, you know, where some great fishing spots are, or how I can apply for, you know, elk hunt in Colorado. And, you know, I kept getting people telling me. So I was like, eventually I said, I want to go through this program. And phase one, I swore that they had sprinkled some voodoo magic on me, because it's our assessment phase, where we focus on who that individual is, and that's what I think our program does differently and better than anyone else. We're not a job placement. We help them. Them attain the skills to find what's next for them.
Carli 25:04
Can anybody who was in special forces go to the Honor Foundation? Do you have to apply? How does one even begin?
Josh Burch 25:10
Go to honor.org and there's application process, very simple, you know, we ask some questions, some little you know, I would say, you know, two to three paragraph questions that we want to get, but it's having them put some skin in the game, because it is free, it's a non profit. So we want you know if it was just sign up by putting your email address, we have a lot of people sign up and then not attend. So we want to know that they have some skin in the game at first. So they have to submit a resume, and then they just, like special forces. They do an assessment process. I have two co workers, teammates mine, Shane menick, who I've known forever, and Jackie Edwards, who they handle, really the onboarding and the program aspect. So they they do an interview with them, make sure that this is the right program for them, and they're willing to dedicate the time because it is a three month long course. We meet two nights a week. Currently meeting at our space is provided by Clarksville Regional Airport, wonderful space right outside of Fort Campbell. And yeah, it's just, it's just amazing.
Carli 26:18
Do they do anything for the spouses too? Or is it really focused on the special?
Josh Burch 26:22
Yeah, and that's one thing that I think is unique to in this last year, and we're really starting to ramp it up. We have, it's called transition as a team sport, because it really is. This is the first time in these soldiers careers where they've actually had ample decisions to make, and they're not making them as a team. You know, typically, you're making all your decisions as team. I never planned anything in my military career that was successful by myself. You know, I always had people around me to provide input, subject matter experts. Well, this is the one time that we have our spouses, so they work through a lot of the same things that we do by themselves in phase one, and it's, you know, Strengths Assessment. So we see what their strengths are, the Gallup strengths pull, and then we do preferences with them, and then we bring them together and show like, here's where your strengths are. Here's where your spouse has strengths that you do not, and here's where there's overlap, where there might be friction. And then here are the preferences. You know, spouse wants you to be around.
Josh Burch 27:29
So, so really, it brings them together and helps make decisions together. But even though, for single soldiers, the thing that about our cohort, even the online and our in person campuses, our virtual and in person campuses, is, you're transitioning together with 30 or 40 other people, right? So you have that team. The first thing I enjoy, the first thing we do in class is, it's called pains and gains, where they get on menti. It's a little survey tool, and it populates on our big screen, and we go through, like, what are your pains? What are your gains? And it's great to hear, you know, struggles, and then hear someone else who just went through that recently that can tell them how to solve that problem, whether it's, you know, turning in their equipment. Like, I don't know where I can get this piece of equipment I lost. Well, you know, here it is. Or a gain like I had a great we introduced them to what's called cups of coffee, which is the whole purpose of our program is to help them make an informed decision on what's next. And we use what we call cups of coffee, 50 cups of coffee, right? 50 cups of coffee. There you go. And but it doesn't stop at 50.
Josh Burch 28:45
Yeah. But you know, so the assessments that we do, the Gallup strengths, and then we do one, it's called Career leader, which takes their strengths motivators, and aligns them with career fields. So you'll have, we tell them anything 80% match or above, that's where you start with your cups of coffee. So if you're you know, four out of my top five are in relationships, so business development, a lot of those kind of were in, in line with with my career leader matches. So that's where I would start having cups of coffee. Who are you having cup of coffee with? Just people that we connect them with volunteers in our community. And you know, we encourage them to, you know, we help them, but we're a Teach a man to fish. We don't. We don't want to fish for them all the time. So we will, if they hit a dead end, we'll encourage them. They also have a coach who they work with outside of the faculty, the coaches who meets with them the most, they meet once a week, one to two hours a week. And these are former CEOs and business leaders who have a little bit more time on their hand to invest in them, and they're making introductions for them as well.
Spencer 30:01
That's. Cool. It's interesting. In our transportation world, hiring individuals out of the military were some of the very best people that we employed, doing package delivery, doing work that required logistics and repetition, finding a pattern to go and execute. And in many cases, the individuals preferred being alone right there in the truck. It's quiet. There's not a lot of people to interact and talk with. And so what are some of the things, if you had to point at some patterns of transitions that tend to be more successful? Is there anything that you can see that is more common?
Josh Burch 30:47
Well, no, and really, because we all have, you know, and I say it's, it's like asking, you know, I'm a Tennessean, so I'm a big vols fan. So who you know? Where do you see folks from the University of Tennessee going? Most likely, or they're all individuals. They all have different strengths, they all have different passions. But that's where, what we want them to do is expose themselves to as many things that I mean, a lot of the titles they'll see on that career leader report they're not familiar with. We have people in logistics. We have people in healthcare. We have people, you know, all over the community, and we really, you know, focus on making an informed decision. We have classes, you know, Company Research, where we tell them, you know, if it's a publicly traded company, there's a lot of information here that you can find. You can look at their shareholder report, see where they're going, see what they're doing. We tell them to look at their website, see what they're involved with philanthropically, because there may be a connection, you know, if you know, with Tractor Supply, I may be, you know, passionate about, you know, what they're involved with philanthropically. And I want to, I want to get involved with that. Or if it's HCA, or, you know, any of the, you know, the companies that are around, or if it's starting my own business, we see a lot of entrepreneurs. When you said logistics, it made me smile, because I didn't realize that that was a strength. But you know, I had to plan, you know, equipment leaving the United States, traveling through two or three different companies or countries. I had to understand, you know, what information was needed to, you know, get it through customs at each of these countries, and then, you know, arrive at a destination. And our entire mission, you know, succeeded or failed unless we had that equipment. So, you know, you don't think about those things. But those are things that, and it's really not in the job title or the things that make movies or books, but those are some, you know, skills that we have that are amazing. But, you know, business development, project management, you know, we just at the end of our cohort, we do what we call trek. It's business visits. We go spend about an hour and a half, and we take them to every sector, you know, industry that you could think of, just to expose them to the different because business development in finance is different than in retail or in, you know, government contracting. So we want to expose them to different things and really just open their minds. I have a picture I'd love to share with you, but it's the last night. Is called Transition night, you know. So if this whole thing is a planning process, we have them brief their plan because, you know, there's something about putting something down on paper and then briefing it to a group of people that, you know, kind of embeds it into your brain. But the second thing we ask him is to put a picture that has meaning for their next chapter in life. And one of our alumni from the spring cohort this year, when it popped up on the screen, almost brought a tear to your mind. But I was like, Yes, he was standing there, and he's like, when I, as I was leaving the army or thought about leaving the military, I thought that my skills, you know, could only translate into very few things. But now I feel like this individual, and it was a silhouette staring up at the stars. He's like, I feel like this individual staring at the stars, who has ample opportunities that can go any direction I want. And Shane our program director, he says one of the things that excites him the most is when he hears our soldiers or our alumni turn down opportunities because it didn't match their preferences, it didn't match their strengths, and it didn't match the culture that they want to be a part of you know that really is, I mean, it's, I wish I would have been through this program prior to my kids going to college, because I would have taken them through this on my own, because it's all about helping them make an informed decision. And, you know, as we spoke about earlier, it's, you know, you look on LinkedIn. In and I use it as a motivating tool for them, because in the military, we have, if you want to do something, you have to go to if you want to be a ranger, you got to go to Ranger school to be a ranger. If you want to be special forces, you have to go to special forces training to become special forces. In the civilian world, if I can articulate how my skills and strengths will provide return on investment to an employer, have a good opportunity of getting that job. And LinkedIn is a perfect diagram of that. You'll see people who went to college for social study, or whatever, history, and then now they're the CEO of a company. It's like, what do the two of these have to do?
Spencer 35:33
What did you go to school for Economics and Psychology?
Josh Burch 35:37
But you were able to identify your strengths, see where you could, you know, put them in entrepreneurship, and you know, you're followed your passions, and now you're you're successful.
Carli 35:48
So I can kind of relate to that. I've never served in the military, but I was the Spence always sees me. I was like the bookish one in this relationship. Spence couldn't get out of school fast enough he works every day to not have to go back to school.
Spencer 36:02
My biggest motivating factor is to be successful, so I don't have to go back to school ever.
Carli 36:06
I would live at school because I like the sticker of completion. I want the star sticker that I did it. I want someone to give me a syllabus. If you give me a syllabus, I will excel at said syllabus, right? But there's something about when I matured and came into adulthood, and I finished school, and then I was like, Well, I have to get a master's degree, because that's the next leader, right? And I do all these things, and then you come out and there's no more gold sticker. There's no one giving you your next plan. There's no one telling you how to be successful, how to get an A you're just trying to figure it out, and I feel like that is what you are helping these really special individuals. I'm just, you know, one person that liked school, that had a hard time in my 20s figuring out what was next. Yeah, these are people that have changed the world. Yeah.
Josh Burch 36:53
Well, we have, and I will say, you know, you have people like myself who have retired, but we have midterm, you know, that 10 year mark, and then we have, you know, first term, which did two to three years. And we tell them, you know, these are all the available resources you have. I mean, you worked and you earned a GI Bill, or post 911 GI Bill. So you have free college. If, if you're 23 years old, 24 years old, I would probably go back to college, you know, let's identify what you want to do and the path, the best pathway to get you there. But if you're a retiree, if you're 45 you know, maybe you don't necessarily need to go back to school to get additional accreditation, because you have work experience. And that's where my work at the Chamber comes in is I'm helping companies see, and I love seeing it now, where it used to be bachelor's required, now it's like bachelor's or equivalent experience, or equivalent military experience, and it's really just them acknowledging, okay, hey, there is some value in in this. And because every year I was doing some sort of, you know, professional education, two to three months of the year throughout my military career. It's one thing that I've noticed is the military DoD is one place where Leadership isn't just, you know, we're going to bring someone in to do a discussion. You know, once a month, it's a leadership school you go to, and they invested in private birch the same way that they invested in Chief Warrant Officer for birch, because they don't know if private Birch is going to become the Sergeant Major of the Army someday. So they have to invest in each of us, you know, the same. So I tell them that just because, you know, we do encourage our fellows, if they want to continue their education, we we bring in guest speakers to talk about, you know, opportunities there post grad or, you know, even if it's completing their bachelor's.
Spencer 38:56
To take you all the way Back to the beginning. And and you think about Manchester, Tennessee, Manchester has an interesting story in that there are some tough stories in Manchester, and there's also some really good stories in Manchester. If you go back there today, what do you see in Manchester, and the path that you took that has resulted in a transformative life experiences. Your kids have gone to college, all sorts of change. What do you see in Manchester as you look back today?
Josh Burch 39:35
Manchester is always home to me. You know, we were just there this past weekend. My grandmother turned 90 years old. Unfortunately, my grandfather's not around anymore, but it was always a, you know, the root of where my life started, you know, and I'm grateful for that experience. And really, you know, Chattanooga. A the same way, I'm not as close to Chattanooga, per se, because my mom and dad have since moved back. They live in the bell Bucha area. So like Chattanooga, or, you know, Chattanooga, you know, has changed a lot too. It sure has, but I guess, you know, like it's all built me into who I am today, and I'm grateful for every you know, like you know, back to iron sharpens iron. You know struggle is, is part of gain. You know, like you don't. You know, gain muscle mass without hurting. You know, by going to the gym and putting in hard work. You know, the same with life. You know, like I learned a lot through overcoming struggles, making stupid decisions, learning from them that applied later on in my life. And you know, I really see, you know, like the farm life, I'm a social introvert. What I like to tell people, because I love being around people and helping people. But then there's times where I just need to seclude myself and be in the woods to, you know, clear my mind and, you know, readjust and, you know, I think that, you know, that's kind of what Manchester represents to me is, you know, that farm, you know, our farm, is back off of a, you know, like about mile and a half road surrounded By woods at the time, when I was growing up, there were no no houses around, just my grandparents farm. And, you know, you know, I really enjoyed that, you know, just peace and calm. And I enjoyed the sense of community, seeing, you know, people help one another, you know, like, I think there, you know, that was one of the struggles I have with as being a soldier as you're, you know, not just, you know, I volunteered to sacrifice, you know, so I volunteered to do this, but my family, my kids, you know, even, even my wife, volunteered because she married me. But you know, my kids, they didn't volunteer to sacrifice. You know, they were just raised in that environment, and there's a lot of sacrifice that goes on, if you think, you know, 22 years of marriage, been home about eight and a half, nine of those years. So that was those kids were, you know, without a parent, you know, one of the parents. And then when I came home, it was really kind of transient. So, but coming home and seeing the news and like, it just seems like the whole world's just falling apart all the time. It's like how we said, if I, if I could own a news agency for every bad story reported, I'd report three good ones. Because there's a lot of great that goes on around us, but it's just not captured. And, you know, that's that's what I saw in Manchester, and that's what I see here in the community. I really see that in Nashville, too, for a city, you know, there's a lot of great I mean, even with the Honor Foundation, with the Nashville chamber, I work closely with Operation stand down Tennessee, you know, all the businesses that are participating, it's a collaboration of our community, and we're the volunteer state for a reason. You know, like we all come together in a time of need, and you see that anytime there's a natural disaster here, you know, like you see a community come together. I love that. I really do.
Carli 43:13
We'd be remiss if we didn't touch a little bit on we I mean, we talked about the anxious, anxious generation and what we're seeing happen to kids, but there is a lot of struggle and mental health issues that can happen for veterans as just a nature of the work that they have been through and what they have sacrificed and walk through in their families. Can you talk a little bit about that as these soldiers are coming out, what do businesses need to know about what they've experienced and what they're going through so that they can support them as employees to be the best that they can be?
Josh Burch 43:49
Well, I'll start with, you know, one of the things that I've noticed is, and I really feel like with the Honor Foundation, we're saving lives, because I recently went to, there's organization called face the fight, lot of different folks come together to, you know, prevent veteran suicide. And I really didn't feel like I had a seat at the table, but I was invited, and I was like, I'm not saying anything, because, you know, we're not, you know, chartered as suicide prevention. But as I started to hear the things that were being said in the room, I noticed, you know, a lot of the organizations out there at the point of ideation, you know, like I want to commit suicide, where I feel that we are on the front end and helping them plan what's next. Help them give them a sense of community to find what's next. Help them with the confidence that enabled them to do something that you know, 99.9% of our population elect not to do. So we're trying to reinstall that confidence so that they can go. Out and find fulfillment in their second chapter. Understand how to translate them their skills under stand that there's a community there of alumni, and you know, the Honor Foundation really starts after the Honor Foundation, because it's we continue to serve them throughout for life. So but from a business standpoint, I will say, you know, it's just, you know, the Veteran Resource Groups, you know, recently worked with the state, the state of Tennessee, just launched the, the veteran ready business Recognition Program, which is, it's to recognize businesses that are doing it right, but it's also a how to book for businesses that are interested, and that would be a good resource to start, but really just developing that sense of community, providing them an opportunity and a chance, just because you don't understand exactly what they did and how It can apply, give them the opportunity. If you have other veterans within the organization, you know, pair them up as a, you know, in the army, we use term battle buddy, you know, as a as a veteran mentor that can help them along the path. It's all about mentorship and just helping other people, but, you know, and understanding the resources that are out there. That's one of the things that I love about what we're doing with Honor Foundation, is we're very proactive. We go to the units and ensure that they understand our resources available to them. We're briefing them constantly, at least every quarter, because there's so many organizations out there doing great things, but it, it's almost an overload of information. You know, Google is, I mean, Google veteran resources. It's just hundreds and hundreds of them, but it's like, what's the right one? And want to help them make that decision.
Spencer 46:55
It's giving that compelling future that retirement really is not all that it's cracked up to be, and I think it is. There's a lot of people that are very fortunate that you did not go out and just on elk and fish your days away, because the compelling future that you're living and creating for other people is one that I think is a important guidebook, and that's a key aspect of what you said there is that there's a lot of businesses that don't have any military presence inside of them. They're patriotic. Love the country. Their heart hurts for the stories. But it's like, how do we even begin to be a part of this, besides just giving money to organizations that are doing something.
Josh Burch 47:45
Thank you for that tee up. So our program, you know, is 100% on, you know, volunteers. You know, we have opportunities we do a mock interviews like this. Last cohort, for example, we had over 150 volunteers, probably 175 volunteers from 85 different companies, and they'll come in do mock interviews. We have them come in as faculty. We have coaches, so there's opportunities to get involved. And what I've noticed is, even like with our business visits is, you know, it comes out as like, just a, you know, patriotic I want to help a veteran, you know, go help a soldier learn how to interview, and then they leave that interview with, I need to back my truck up and hire as many of these folks as I can. So it's, we're educating on both sides. You know, the the more you sit down and I mean, it's that's the same with every, you know, part of life, too. If the more I sit down and talk to someone and understand who they are, where they come from, what their experiences are, then I better can relate to them. And I think that's the problem is, you know, one of the good things is we have an all volunteer army, and we have a, you know, ample amount of soldiers who are willing to serve our country, but when we had the draft, you had a lot more people who were serving shorter amounts of time then going into the civilian sector. Well, they understood the value. So now you have fewer and fewer amount of the population, so less people understand what you actually do in the military? I mean, the same thing I thought of, probably, it was like, there's a guy that carries a gun, there's somebody that flies a helicopter, and then there's people in tanks, you know, you don't think of it, but Fort Campbell is a city within a city. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like Vanderbilt, you know, it's, we have our own hospitals. We have our own, you know, childcare facilities, everything.
Josh Burch 49:41
Department of Public Works the whole nine yards so, and we have a soldier who is essentially a mayor, which is the garrison commander. You have a division commander. So you have all these different, you know, things that that correlate to, you know, normal life. And I think that gets exposed once you put people. The room together and they start
Carli 50:00
talking. You just need to be the translator, which you did with Arabic, but it seems like that's your job is. Now you're the translator of all of the acronyms. What these job titles like, even just saying He's the mayor, helping civilians understand what that job title means, and helps the people that have that job title translate it for the rest.
Josh Burch 50:19
And that's what those business letter business leader visits through the Nashville chamber help us with, is they get to see it. Not only are you hearing it, but you're seeing it. And then, you know, I'm lucky, because I really am. That's where I say. This is a God thing is I'm on both ends of the spectrum. I'm helping businesses, you know, connect and better understand the value, and I'm helping soldiers articulate themselves and better understand their value, so they're able to meet in the middle. And it really is amazing. I'm truly honored, you know, no pun intended. I'm truly honored to be a part of the Honor Foundation and the chamber. You know, I even actually am the Vice President for Special Forces Association, chapter 38 as well. So I went from not having any jobs to three jobs. It's volunteer for the Special Forces Association, but, but that's I was going 150 miles an hour, and to think that I was just going to hit the brakes and my family, my wife, would want to stay with me. I needed to be busy. You know, after about two weeks of great ideas, she's like, You need to find something.
Carli 51:27
And this is not pandering. Sitting here across from you, there's true joy that lights up your face when you talk about your work. And I just think there's, there is this mistake in our culture right now, this idea that taking care of ourselves. Self care means putting on the brakes completely and disengaging and thinking about, what do I need? What? Me, me, me, me. And there is a place where you do have to soul search and think. But I also believe that God ordered the universe, that when we are outside focused, we heal on the inside. And I think what you're doing at the Honor Foundation about how you can serve, what am I good at? What am I gifted at, and how can I continue to serve my country and my family in civilian life, is a really powerful testament to that ordering, that God did of the universe.
Josh Burch 52:14
It's awesome. You say that because I tell our fellows and as they become alumni, I say, you served in an all volunteer military, there's something inside you. It's got a serving heart. So I don't care, you know, and purpose is one of the things that we see, that that our folks align with the most. You know, as we say there's five things everyone wants in a career, love what you do, love the people you work with, live where you want to live, make good money, work reasonable hours, and love what you do, and love the people you work with. They're usually on the top two. So that sense of purpose, and that's where we say, you know, like researching a company and finding out what they're involved with philanthropically. So it might not, you know, be, you know, serving your country, but something they do that you can be involved with, you know, encourages you to be a part of that organization. But I don't care if it's, you know, serving on a ministry team at church, you know, a little league soccer team, invest in the community around you. You know, volunteering. You know, Operation stand down with, you know, their commissary, or whatever the aspect is, something like the Honor Foundation. There's ample opportunities. Every class we have an alumni that comes back in and tells their story, a success story of transition and how the Honor Foundation helped them, because we, we tell them, you know, like, trust in the process because, you know, it gets, you know, they feel kind of weird when we're doing the Simon Sinek, start with why program, and they're telling stories about their lives. Like, why is this important? Well, you're going to have to tell a story to make an impact in an interview. So tell stories. But you know, our alumni come back in and share some of the successes in it. You know, you get to see that, and I really do. Thank you. I'm glad that you see the join my face, because I really love what I do.
Spencer 54:12
Biblically, one of the favorite teachings that I have is that you recognize people in the faith by their fruit, right? You can see what is produced. And it is no surprise to me that everyone around you has reacted to your service, serving in their own way. They're serving as a nurse. They're serving your wife is serving. I mean serving in every capacity. And that is true fruit that has come out of your service. And you're probably relieved on some level that they're not having to serve in 16 deployments of their own, but you would have supported them in that way too, even if you had so thank you so much for answering and sharing in that, because I think it lets us be able to connect to your heart in a way that people hearing this will say that's a group that I want to see. The board. One fun tradition we have on most of our podcasts is we ask each of our guests to bring something that will let them tell a little story or reveal a little bit about themselves. So this has been in the middle of the table. All I can kind of tell is it's a big pile of maps and all sorts of things. So maybe tell us what's in the middle because I'm just dying to know at this point.
Josh Burch 55:20
Well, when I was asked to bring something, I had 100 things pop through my head./
Josh Burch 55:31
So part of the Assessment and Selection, one of the main parts, is land navigation. And, you know, you can really tell I didn't understand. I thought it was just about the ability to find a point on a map. But you can really tell a lot about a person during land navigation because they give you specific rules. You're not allowed to use the roads. So in North Carolina, where this, this course is is taking place, there's a lot of draws, swampy area that you have to walk through, and you're doing this at day and night, and you're, you're, you're putting a lot of miles. But I really enjoyed it, and I don't know what it was, just the peace, tranquility of being out by myself, and, you know, having to problem solve without someone there, but, but they teach you throughout the course. And this is a compass, you know, lens, attic compass that's used. I've got a really fine point pencil and a protractor, which you use to identify where you're at, and then the map, and then on the map there's a legend, you know, you have all sorts of things that you have to use, but I really thought that it's, really just a lesson to life in general, is like you have to have all the tools. Because I could just have the map and I could, you know, you know, halfway get through where I would I would like to go, if I had the adequate training. But I really couldn't do nothing if I just had, you know, this protractor or a pencil, and then, you know, a compass. Unless I knew where I was wanting to go, the compass really doesn't do me any good. And I really think that, you know, with the Honor Foundation and with life in general, it's all about surrounding yourself with people and resources, to have all the tools to be able to get where you think you want to go or where God's leading you, and you know that's I'm a map collector. And funny story recently, my daughter, her phone was having issues, and she she told my wife, like, Mom, I'm going to need you to drive me back to leapers fork because I don't know how to get there, and I'm like, I failed as a father, my daughter does not know how to read a map. She has to rely on, you know, one of these map services. And you know, there were several times where I made her or my son use a map to get us to a location, but they usually fell asleep, like halfway into it when. So I would just take over, but, but, yeah, so I think, you know, you know, it's interesting, you know, you look at life as a map, you know, it's like where you've been and where you're going. And, you know, sometimes you may get a little bit off course, but you know, if you know, if you have the proper tools and surround yourself with the right people and get where you need to be.
Spencer 58:27
Josh, it's amazing time. Thank you for being with us today, and I think the message that you give us is one of the importance of community and how much that started your story and how much you're still living that today. And I think that is amazing. As a Tennessean through and through that has been all over the world to places that no one, none of us would ever recognize,
Carli 58:56
Or be able to find on a map, or be able to find on a map,
Spencer 59:01
You really have brought it back home and are continuing to serve in a way that makes us really proud. So it's great to give you a little bit of a megaphone today and to talk about what you're doing at the Honor Foundation. So thank you for joining us today.
Josh Burch 59:13
I appreciate it. And if there's ever folks who are interested in getting involved with the program volunteering, they can reach out to me on a you know, or then go to honor.org to find out how to get involved. And we'd love to get them involved, because this is really having an impact.
Spencer 59:33
So Josh Burch, the director of people at the Honor Foundation, his gifting is definitely people and a translator, I think you hit on something perfect in the podcast that just like how he had to learn Arabic in six months of Amber. Of training as a kid from Manchester, Tennessee, learn in Arabic. He's had to learn how to translate from military speak to civilian and from civilian to military speak. And I think that's amazing in the heart of service. That was so clear coming off of him,
Carli 1:00:21
I really loved hearing his story about growing up and his granddaddy's farm. And, you know, I think when the country as a whole thinks of Tennessee, they think of Nashville, maybe sometimes Memphis and Knoxville and Chattanooga. But there are strengths in the people from east to west, north to south. And I love that he said, Manchester is still home, and that was the community that built him, and how those are the stories we're hearing every day from people across the state. And I just find that so beautiful, that there is no nook or cranny overlooked, that he is a testament to what this state creates. It's like it's in the water. It's why I wanted to have my kids here. It just creates this grit and this beauty in people, regardless of where you're from, that I think it's really cool.
Spencer 1:01:14
And I think his story beginning in a really tough moment, that it's a teen pregnancy, he's afraid to tell his mom, so he tells his dad, and ultimately, it leads him on a course to having to bang fence posts into the ground and pull wire, which is about the hardest job you're going to do on a farm. And his granddad sits him on the back of the truck and says, You need to get into the service. And what a different life Josh may have lived, I think he told us about that himself, had he not been coachable and teachable to say, All right, I'm gonna listen to the wisdom of my granddad, sure, who's sitting here telling me himself that I'm not the man that you think I am. I'm just the product of the five people that I've spent the most time around.
Carli 1:02:04
I think what I really heard from this is something you and I talk about a lot as we evaluate what business we're going to do next, or what we want to do with our family or beyond, right? Is this feeling of not being afraid to do something because it's hard. There could be a lot of reasons too or to not do something, but how hard something is, or how much sacrifice you're gonna have to make to do it, cannot be part of the calculus. Can think about everything else but refusing to be afraid of doing hard things. And that's what I heard from Josh, that's what I heard from his wife, from his kids, even though they didn't know it, he was even saying, you know, that life was kind of thrust upon them, but the fruit that it's produced is just so powerful when you're not afraid to do hard things.
Spencer 1:02:54
I think that translates really, really well in his story and the ultimate outcome that his service leaves a mark every day on not only his fellow veterans but his family, and that he has sacrificed like what most leaders have to do, the higher you climb that chain, the more that you have to sacrifice. But I think it's also powerful and that he doesn't sit across from a single man or woman on any day where he is saying, Well, I didn't do this, but you had to do this is that probably in nearly every case, as a Green Beret that served 16 deployments, he is Sitting at a even higher level than the person he's having to relate to, and that's what makes him a great leader, is that he's not asking anybody to do something that he hasn't done himself, and that can be sacrificed family, sacrifice opportunity, sacrifice earning potential, all the different things, even sacrifice fishing and hunting elk.
Carli 1:04:00
He's done it all well, and I thought it was interesting, too, how he talked about how hard it is for these special ops men and women to talk about themselves. It makes them feel icky, yeah? And you could feel that on him. He was so authentic, but the idea of sharing his own story is so raw, and I am so inspired by this idea that it is never about self promotion, not one ounce of what he's doing, what the owner Foundation is doing. Any of this is about name recognition or them as an individual. It's about helping the greater whole. And I think as you talk about growing in leadership, sometimes people need to know your name so you're effective. Sometimes they don't. But the goal can never be should never be pride or who I am or what I climb to. It's always about what is my reach to serve the most number of people possible. And I feel like he really embodied that in. In such an authentic way that it's powerful the people he helps. But gosh, I hope, even if people listening to this have no military background and do not feel called to that kind of service, they will see that in his humanity, because that's a bug I hope all of us catch.
Spencer 1:05:15
Oh, I really love that. That's a great identification in him, that the heart posture of service is what has allowed him to be elevated. It was never about self promotion, and it's that really delicate line between having to do the things in a civilian business climate to promote and market, but in doing so, he's never lost sight that he's doing it for his fellow soldier, not in the elevation of himself, because he'd
Carli 1:05:57
probably rather be with his map. Yeah, that's right, walking by himself. It's actually sacrificing itself to be in front when your heart posture is in that place.
