Kevin Menezes on Religious Persecution in India
Kevin Menezes is the Founder and Senior Pastor of Every Nation India – a group that does church planting in India. With a commitment to seeing the gospel change the lives of the 1.4 billion people living in India, Menezes demonstrates the power of bravery and faith in his efforts to grow Christianity. While the challenges are significant, Menezes has a lightness to his leadership.
About Kevin Menezes
Kevin Menezes is the founder and senior pastor of Every Nation Mumbai. Before starting the work in India, he worked in the corporate world and served the Every Nation churches in the Middle East. Since launching the church in 2007, Kevin has worked to train and equip local leaders for church planting, campus ministry, and community outreach.
He and his wife, Lynette, have three children and three grandchildren and live in Mumbai, India.
-
Spencer 00:06
Kevin Menezes, we're very excited to have you here. Welcome to signature required.
Kevin Menezes 00:11
Thank you so much. Spencer and Carli, it's just a joy to be here.
Spencer 00:16
You are a dear friend of ours, and have been a friend for a decade now, you are a church planter in India. I'm really excited to get to talk to you today to just learn some of your story, because having known you as a friend so long, you have a unique bridge between Western culture and eastern culture. So maybe just get us started and tell us a little bit about your story, where you were born, where you've lived, and we'll kind of just go through it together and let our listeners learn about how impressive your background is.
Kevin Menezes 01:05
Now, the first thing that really intrigued me was whether you were captivated by my good looks.
Spencer 01:12
Clearly, that was part of it. That's why we have all these cameras around here. This interview doesn't do justice without capturing that.
Kevin Menezes 01:21
I was actually born and raised in in the northern part of India, in a small town called Allahabad. Now I know when I say small town, we are talking of a million people. Okay, that's a small town for us. Small Town perspective in India, yeah, but I grew up there and it all of my childhood, my college education, and after that, I moved to the big city, which is Mumbai. So your equivalent here in the states would be New York. Actually, that's the closest city I've ever found in America, similar to Mumbai, in a sense, but it's, it's been an interesting journey. And whenever I do travel to the US, it's, it's, it's hard to really explain how different our two worlds are in terms of when I have my American friends come and visit in India, the first thing that really strikes them, I mean, apart from the crowd and the people and all of that, it's what I call an assault on the eyes, and that's because of the vibrancy of colors. You know, if you see Indian weddings or Indian people, they're there, there's always an array of colors. So people get so captivated by how different it is. You know, just getting used to all those beautiful colors and but I think, as a culture and as a people, we have a rich cultural heritage, and I know that you have that too here in the US,
Spencer 03:36
Not like 4000 years that You all have, though.
Kevin Menezes 03:39
I guess, I mean, it's, it's, it's rich in culture. It's, it's very diverse. I mean, something that probably that's happening now in the US with with a lot of migrants moving even to Tennessee, I think the diversity in India is huge. So many languages, food, I mean, the cuisine of every different state. It's interesting.
Carli 04:14
So you were born in India, and then you left for a while. Tell us about that.
Kevin Menezes 04:19
I like I said, I grew up in north India, then moved the western part of the country in Mumbai, and then through, I think it was really God preparing me for what he had or would want me to do somewhere down the road, I felt a call to move to the Middle East. And I had never been to the Middle East. I had. I really knew little about it, but I I did. I. Learn to recognize the voice of God. And when he would speak to me, I knew I sort of, you know, it's that gentle voice and and over the years, I've, I've learned to recognize the voice of God, and sometimes it's things I don't like to hear but I've learned to trust and obey God. So So when, when this opportunity came up, it was a job opportunity in in in Dubai, that's in the United Arab Emirates. And at that time I was working in in Citibank, in in Mumbai, and most of my friends thought that that's the most bizarre thing to do. Why would you leave an organization like Citibank to move to the Middle East and but it was hard to explain to them that my convictions were not based on job or a career, but it was based on following God and what He wanted me to do. So lo and behold, I I took that step, not really and knowing what it would look like and and most of my journey really has been that way, taking a step at a time, sort of not knowing what the next steps would look like. A little like Abraham, you know, when he was told to go to a nation which he didn't even have a clue about this, oftentimes in my life, I've felt that kind of attention. And so we moved to the Middle East. My son, David, was, at the time, only six months old. And it was, it was an interesting journey. The First I went there before my family joined me, and for the first month, I cried several times. And I felt so alone. There was no Christian church. I couldn't find community, and I just wondered, God, why did you bring me here?
Carli 07:20
Did you question that you had heard correctly in that moment?
Kevin Menezes 07:24
I mean, I had multiple times I asked God, and I even questioned, did I hear God correctly? Am I sure this is where he wanted me to be? But, you know, I've, I've realized that whenever you take a simple step of faith, God does confirm. And over the period of the initial six months, I had several confirmations that God was in it, in that decision, and he, he led me, and then my family joined me, and it was, I would say, we lived in the Middle East. We lived in Dubai for approximately 10 years. And looking back now, it was a very rich season. I got to learn about culture and nations and people. I led a small group that met in my home, and we had probably 15 different nationalities that met, and I did Bible studies with them, and it was so rich. And through our time there, God also enabled me to help some church plants in very hostile and restricted nations.
Spencer 08:55
And that's really how the church started, right? As lot of house churches. It was not what we've become used to here in America, where, especially in Tennessee, where every 300 yards there seems to be a church very clearly marked that it's much more a community of families coming and oftentimes doing so quite secretly,
Kevin Menezes 09:19
yeah, and it was, you're absolutely correct. It seemed like I was living the Bible in the book of Acts. You know, where we met, house to house. Because when I started to look for a church, I, you know, the obvious thing, and you know, I'm talking about more than 25 years ago. So I went to the Yellow Pages. You know what that yellow pages are? Okay? So I went to look for the yellow in the yellow pages, and there's no church listed there. And then there was a number I found, and I actually called called that number, and it happened to be an American. Missionary serving there in and he he was very warm and in the way, he welcomed that conversation. And then he invited me. He says, Why don't you join? And we used to that the church service used to be held on Fridays, that used to be the holiday, and it's because it's a Islamic nation. So on Friday, I went and we were actually meeting in his house. There wasn't any church buildings, but it was, it was such an interesting season. So when I started having meetings in my home, I felt okay, that's the normal thing to do.
Spencer 10:44
What ultimately brought you to the states.
Kevin Menezes 10:49
So that season in Dubai, I did get connected with the ministry I serve with now, it's called every nation, and we are a global family of churches in over 82 nations as of now, with a heart for church planting and campus ministry. And while I served on the pastoral team and did helped start a lot of churches there and disciple a lot of people from different nations. Because we were a church planting movement, I felt that our leaders always were looking out and praying for people, praying for nations where we didn't have a church or an every nation church. And I remember coming to the to the States for the first time in in 2001 so we would have these conferences that would be held every few years. We would call it a World Conference. And it was, it was held in Los Angeles, and I attended, I had happened to attend that conference, and I was the only Indian there. It was a bit of a strange feeling in that, in that conference, yeah, I was the only Indian there. And a lot of the leaders, you know, I don't think they were being manipulative in any way, but they would be praying for me. And did you ever see yourself going back to your own nation and honesty at that point of time, I never felt a call to return back. We were happy serving in the Middle East and obeying what we believe God had called us to do. But then subsequently, in 2002 we were at a conference in Manila, and at that conference, we clearly heard, I heard the voice again one more time, saying, I want you to return to India, and it's something Spencer I really did not want to hear, and I tried to shake off The thought or the feeling, but the good news was that both Lynette, my wife, Lynette and I, she heard it as well, and and later she did confess that often times she knew that we would be going back, but it's something that she would wrestle with. Time for her to tell you, yeah, didn't want to ever talk about it, or let's not address that elephant in the room,
Carli 13:45
Strategic woman.
Kevin Menezes 13:47
But long story short, we did that night, dedicate ourselves and say, God, whatever you'd want us to do, we would. We would do it, and we would go and because the headquarters of our every nation movement is here in Tennessee, Nashville, we actually in Brentwood. We we were invited to come here and go through Pastor school and training. So that brought us to Tennessee, and we absolutely love the South and the number of friends, I wish I met you in those years, but 10 years is great, and I think we'll be friends forever. But we did enjoy a great season here, and then, after our time here, we spent a season in living in the Philippines. And then we were back in in in Tennessee. And eventually, it was from here that we left at the end of 2024 so we reached India, actually in the new year of 2005 to start our work.
Carli 15:01
So you've been in India church planting for 20 years
Kevin Menezes 15:04
As of now, yes, almost Yes.
Carli 15:07
Something I really appreciate your men. About your ministry is how strategic your model is, that you are working to develop youthful leaders on college campuses. Can you give us a little taste of what that looks like for you guys.
Kevin Menezes 15:21
You know when I when I was here in training. Now, one of the things that every nation does very intentionally is to reach the next generation of leaders. And the question we would always ask is, where are the where is that next generation? And they are on the college campuses today, so that literally drives where we would go. So whether there's any city in the world that we would plant a church, we would intend be intentional about targeting a college campus or being somewhere around students. So when I went back to Mumbai, there are 300 colleges in the city of Mumbai, 300 colleges, 300 Yeah, and they all fall under the umbrella of the Mumbai University. So I I started to pray, God. Where do I start? Even in 300 and it's always good to start right at the top. So I listed down. I did the research, okay, which are the top campuses, and, you know, the best courses, and all of that and and then that's how we started. I I approached those colleges, I talked to the deans, and I really feel it was, it was not anything with my good looks or my charisma or anything like that. Sure. Yeah, pretty convinced, I'm pretty certain about that. It was really the grace of God that enabled me, because, listen, we're talking about a Hindu nation. It's not Christian colleges. It's not these are secular colleges and but they did have me in. Now, obviously, I didn't go in as a pastor. I went in as a as a corporate executive, somebody who could impart on leadership to them, but it gave me an avenue to engage and train and reach out to future leaders.
Spencer 17:38
I learned from you about some important demographics of India that when I saw the numbers, I just couldn't fully absorb it until I sat down to really appreciate it. I just want to give a couple of those and lead it into my question. I remember you telling me that right now in India, there are 1.4 5 billion people that live there. So 1,450,000,000 and when you compare that to the United States, like our whole population in the United States is about 330 million ish, so we're talking about a nation that is almost five times larger than the United States, and of your 1.4 5 billion people, 700 million of them are under 25 years old, which is just impossible to fully appreciate how young that society is. I mean, that is right on the cusp of starting to have kids. So India, while having just recently replaced China as the most populous nation in the world, is going to get a whole lot more populated in the near future. So maybe you can just take a second and help the overwhelming majority of the listeners here that have never been to India may never get the opportunity to go to India. What is it like in India right now, just in general, what's the spirit of the nation. Someone might ask that about the United States. And you know, each of us could tell you a little bit about that. But what's the spirit of India right now? And also answer that as it relates to being a Christian in India, help us understand what type of minority you are if you're a Christian in India?
Kevin Menezes 19:44
Well, that's that's really a great question Spencer, and it's true that we are the largest nation. We did overtake China in 2024 and it's. Yes, it's also true that we have a young population that's 700 million. So approximately 50% of our population is under the age of 25 and I think for us as a nation, that's exciting. It's it's exciting on two levels, obviously, economically, you know, there's going to be a great workforce of young Indians. And you already know this. I mean, India is at the forefront of tech, of, you know, medical, I mean, I think the largest number of doctors here are in the US are Indian, yeah. I mean, you look at all of the tech, top tech companies that be filled with with Indians. So I think we are poised for, you know, just tremendous economic growth. And I think India would be forced to reckon with in that sense. But it's very, it's very strategic, missionally as well. Like I said that, you know, Christian research has shown that nine out of 10 people actually come to Christ before the age of 25 and after the age of 25 it's one in 10,000 so for us, I mean, that's that excites me that that's a great opportunity.
Spencer 21:42
Yeah, you've got to get to them now. Yeah, it's like, if you're going to come to Christ, nine out of 10 people. That has to happen before they turn 25 or else the odds switch. Yeah, one in 10,000 that really speaks to that 700 million population under 25 in India right now?
Kevin Menezes 22:01
Yeah, but, but like you asked the what's it like and the demographic for Christians? The numbers don't look good, but it's not always about the numbers right now, 80% of our nation is Hindu, 15% is Muslim, and Christians are only 2.5% so while the numbers don't look good, and you know, you might feel a little discouraged, but come on, we, we've got to look at it as an opportunity. And here's, here's what drives me, if you know and understand Hinduism, which is the largest group, 80% of our population, there is a very complex caste system. But the highest caste and the priestly caste are Brahmins. That's their name. Yeah, that's that's the people group, the Brahmins. And the Brahmins are only 2% and that 2% influences the 80% of the rest of the Hindus. So my question is to myself, Why can't 2% of the Christians begin to influence our nation? And I'm so excited about that fact that, yes, we can influence it's not always about, you know, the numbers Jesus, with 12 disciples, could turn the world upside down. So why can it not happen that that drives me? I mean, it gives it excites me, the great opportunity there is in our nation.
Spencer 23:50
Can you contrast when we talk about church planting? Help explain what church planting is like in India versus church planting here in the States, so we go to a church where they're planting churches and cities all over the place, and it is common even in the United States, trying to reach to a meaningful group of unchurched individuals. Help contrast that in India, of actually how you plan a church? Are you allowed to? Is that legal? What is that like when you're trying to grow the faith there?
Kevin Menezes 24:28
Now for us, it's very urban, because we are trying to reach future leaders. So we will obviously hit larger cities. We will hit the top college campuses. So we are very intentional about how we do it. But that doesn't mean that other church models are not effective. Some people have a call to rural ministry, and they would just plant in villages if. Execution intensifies and things become difficult, we could always move to a house church model how it was in early biblical times. So it, I think we've got to really discern what God wants and what he's doing in a particular city. So typically, when we plant a church, we would scout the land, we would send forth a team there to to prayer, walk, to have lots of conversations, to engage that city, understand what God is doing, and then figure out what kind of a church he would have us move in to plant. And I'm sure it's, it's similar in in the US, you know, if you're planting in in a small community, or, you know, if it's a mega church that starting another campus, then you just move 500 people to that campus. And then, you know, you already have a church up and running. And then, depending on whether you want to grow your church through outreaches, or however else that that continues,
Carli 26:16
Something that's burdened my heart, as we love you and your family so much, and in full transparency, Kevin's been such a good friend to us and has spoken such life into our girls. We are worried about you, and I know you're fearless and you're like, we will not be stopped. You know the church grows under persecution. Just look at the Bible. That's honestly how it grows best. But as people who love you sitting here in Tennessee and we look at the news about how your government is treating Christians, can you speak to that a little bit to help maybe educate our audience on what is going on in the political realm for you?
Kevin Menezes 26:57
You know, that's a great question, Carli, and you remember, as I said a little earlier, when God took me to the Middle East, I fully didn't understand the purpose behind that, but I think he was preparing me those 10 years that when I would come back to India, I would have an understanding of how to navigate these kind of situations. Now, obviously, when I moved when we moved back to India in 2005 it wasn't as challenging in terms of tolerance towards minority groups or Christians and others. Sadly, that has intensified in the last decade. But you know, I truly believe that God is sovereign, and you know, he has the ability not only to protect us, but to watch over his his people. And the Bible does command us to pray for those in government and to pray for them and to bless them. And we've seen some radical shifts even in this election that recently concluded, though we have the same party that have won, but there's a lot of dynamic that has changed in that and so I'm pretty hopeful for a Better tomorrow, and I I know that God loves people. He died for people, and having 1.4 billion people in my nation tells me that truly, as the scripture says, The harvest is plentiful, and I know the laborers are few, but we've got to keep moving ahead, and I think sometimes just having that little tension just behind us keeps us on The move. We don't ever get complacent or it's exciting, you know, I to say the least, it is. It's exciting now, I know it's, it's, it's different here in the US, and you do have a lot of freedom and privileges, and it's wonderful. And I've been to a lot of nations that have been restrictive, and not that I am wishing that persecution increases in our nation. But whatever it is, I know that if persecution increases, the spread of the gospel is also going to increase. I have no doubt about that.
Spencer 29:59
What's the important? Of an organization like every nation in your mission, as as I see it, you could go and plant these churches, and you're on the ground there. So for someone that's listening, that may try to try to think through, what's the value of every nation? What do they do for you? How would you answer that question, versus if you just had to do it on your
Kevin Menezes 30:26
own? That's that's a great question. And yes, we we could do it alone, but when I look at the Bible, Jesus could have also done it alone, but he did choose 12 disciples who he empowered. And then we see from scriptures, it was not just the 12. Then it became the 72 and then it was 120 and that continued to grow. The values that every nation adds to us is, first of all, relational. You know, there are times and and why I say that that's so important is how much I value the relationship I have with you guys. For the last decade, I know every time you know we talk, occasionally, whenever I message you, there's always a response, praying for you, encouraging and we need that. I mean, I need people like you. I value those relationships in every nation as well. It keeps us on mission. It they sorry? They also provide a lot of collaborative learning, research and development like this. This book, the purple book that I, I do almost every year. It's one of our most foundational resources. It's it's been written by two of the founders of every nation, rice Brooks and Steve Morell and and both of them live here in Nashville, and it's so in terms of resources and development and training, they provide a global resource for us in development. Now, imagine if I have to go plant churches as well as develop stuff. It's hard to do it all alone. It's far better to walk together with leaders who we've walked with for several years. And I think I find it just a great help.
Carli 32:43
You said in your story, and I just can't get out of my brain that you heard the voice of God and that it moved so many of your steps. And that might be something that we share, but we have an audience with a diverse background. And so for people that maybe aren't Christian, or the idea of hearing from God audibly feel super foreign, but they're still trying to make huge life decisions and honor what they feel inside of them. How would you counsel someone? And I know this could be like a 10 part sermon series, so that's not what I'm looking for. How would you explain that experience? Or how would you counsel someone that that's so far outside their faith journey, but they are seeking wisdom in a decision to even begin to say, Okay, God, well, I'm sitting here and I don't know what to do, so help me figure that out.
Kevin Menezes 33:40
You know, Kali, that's that's really a great question, and one of the things I deeply believe is that everybody is created, as the Bible says, in the image of God, and Christian or not, there's something that God puts inside of us that first of all, brings up a desire to know God, and that's why there are so many expressions of worship. Now people are trying to figure that out. And like in India and Hinduism, there are three, 30 million gods
Kevin Menezes 34:32
But it's that, it's that something that God puts in us, that calls for men to seek Him, and in Romans, it talks about that. But more than that, even if people know the truth or not, or know the Scriptures or not, we all have a conscience, and people can rely on that they know that. Is something deep inside, when they when they seek the Creator, or a lot of people say, the force, or I can't explain, but they know there's something greater that you know, and they find either peace or solace, or they search for that. And when they need wisdom on next steps in their life, and and they just reach out to the unknown, in a sense, and they that directs the course of their life. And it's like, I'm reminded of this passage in the Bible where, you know, Paul was in this place, and you know, he saw the shrine to an unknown garden, he says. And he used that as a point to say, Okay, what you don't know. Let me now explain to you. So it does give, obviously, somebody like me an opportunity to engage people and and point that in that direction.
Spencer 35:59
We really love having you, Kevin, it's just a treat to hear you as a storyteller, to have a really unique person that can bridge having lived in Tennessee, right? Because that's one of the spirits of signature required is there's a lot of people moving to Tennessee now you move to India from Tennessee, but a lot of people that are coming here that just want to understand what Tennessee is all about, and you carry some of those stripes, and you carry those on the world stage, bringing the Lord to other nations. And it's just really special, I think, for people to be able to hear you speak with a western mindset that you've lived here. You can make jokes about road rage and say, Hey, you want to see some road rage come to Mumbai.
Carli 36:53
There's nobody around you on this road. Why are you even angry?
Spencer 36:56
And it's just so fun to get to ask you about your experience, because you really do share some of our world and some of a world that's a long ways away. So maybe let's bring it home with this. Kevin, so when you think about the mission work that you do in India that is separate from church planting, but the real way that you are the hands and feet of Jesus with some of the people that you work with there. Can you tell us a story? Tell us a mission, something that is on your heart of the people group or a community that you serve in India that might just help broaden your story out from more than just church planting.
Kevin Menezes 37:43
You know, when we moved to India, it's almost 20 years now, I was very focused on the mission to plant churches and to reach future leaders of our nation, and very intentional about the campus. But as I would drive in our city now, we are a mega city of the world, over 20 million people in Mumbai, but more than half of our population live in slums or on the street.
Spencer 38:24
Wow, more than 50% Yeah,
Kevin Menezes 38:26
So they're very rich and affluent, and then just if they looked out of their window, there would be people living on the street. And I would drive past these flyovers, and there would be people just sleeping under the flyovers. And one of the things that one time I had it was really a God moment. I have lots of God moments in my life, and and God spoke to me about serving you know, the have nots. And there was once a camp that was organized, and it was one of my cousins who organized it, and and she was an older lady, and she says, Kevin, you have all these college kids around you. And can they'll bring high energy? Can, can they just come and help me at my camp? So I told her, yeah, sure, we'll, we'll do it. And can you tell me a little bit about these kids? And then she said, you know, these are kids who live in the brothels, and I didn't quite understand all of that, and and my kids had college friends and but they came from affluent Hindu homes, so I was just thinking how. Am I going to bridge this and talk to them about who they are going to serve, and because of the caste system, which I'm aware of, you know, and people look down on other people, and all of this. So I didn't really know how it's all going to pan out, but I said, Okay, we'll do it. So I prepared these kids, and I told them, Listen, we are going to be serving in this camp. And let me tell you, this is going to be a one off, you know, let's just go there. And now I know that, you know, you may, may never have met children like these, but can we just for, for that one day, just put aside our own, you know, what we think, or anything, but just, let's go there and sort of be the hands and feet of Jesus. Now, these are all not Christian, okay, the my, the kids I'm taking there, but, but they knew I was, and they knew my daughter, Sonia, was and and they said, Yes, Uncle, Yes, uncle. They in India, they call it the older people uncles, who said, yes, yes, we'd be happy to do this. And so we went there. And I think that that camp changed everything. Not only did those girls get so deeply impacted, they were loving on these kids and hugging them and and they felt such a Connect, it would Kali. This could have never happened in normal circumstances in India. But, and that was, I'm talking about, this is in 2008 and that meeting led me to start what we call transformers club. And I know I've shared this story with you all, and your kids had collected whatever the piggy bank, and one time I was in your house, and they gave that piggy bank to me, and I was I was so deeply touched by that gesture that This gift would go back to serve those kids who don't have much. And we've never stopped doing that, as much as everything else we do. We've never stopped doing that, and I'm praying for some leaders to come and really take that vision forward, because I think we really represent the heart of God. Jesus said, When, you know, when I was in prison, you came in, when did we do that? And they said, what you did to the least you did to me. Think about that. I think about it often in our nation, in our context, and I want to keep doing that as much as I would train leaders, plant churches, and I'd never forget the poor.
Spencer 43:26
You have the best heart and seeing some of the stories and photos, as you said, children living in brothels. Yeah, it's such a contrast every time we get to hear your stories of the things that we see in America and the things that exist in this whole world that we live in, and I think the more that we get to hear the stories that you have to tell, the more that It puts into context a handful of things in that it reminds us, in some ways, that, yes, we have problems, but we also have no problems. And it doesn't take seeing many of those experiences to look one of those kids in the eye, as you've done, to say, Wow, that's a life that is a long, long, long ways away from the life that I live. And I just really appreciate the multiple parts of your ministry that is planting churches and is helping grow the faith in a country of 1.4 5 billion people, where two and a half percent are Christians. I love your attitude to say that just means there's more to harvest. There's more there for us to get there, you can only go up. I appreciate that I can get on board with that. And the fact that you tell. Story from a mission standpoint, from a church planting standpoint, I'm just so thankful that you've taken the time to help educate us, help answer our both dumb and very deep questions throughout this time. So we love you, Kevin, thank you for being here today.
Kevin Menezes 45:16
Thank you. It's just been a joy. Thank you so much, and thank you for the standing and supporting all that we do. I know that you make a huge difference more than you can ever imagine. So I'm deeply grateful we love the friendship and the love and your family.
Spencer 45:33
Thank you.
