The Power of a Present Father | Marcus Meneese

Marcus Meneese, founder and executive director of Stronger Than My Father, joins Spencer and Carli to talk about fatherhood, mentorship, discipline, and breaking generational cycles. Marcus shares how the example set by his own father inspired him to spend more than 20 years showing up for boys growing up without present fathers, and why he believes being there consistently can shape the men, husbands, and fathers they become.

About Marcus Meneese

Marcus Meneese is the Founder and Executive Director of Stronger Than My Father, a Nashville nonprofit mentoring young men growing up without present fathers. For more than 20 years, Marcus has worked to equip young men with the discipline, life skills, confidence, and support they need to become strong men, husbands, and fathers. His approach was shaped by the example of his own father and a belief that one consistent adult can make a lasting difference in a young person’s life.

The Power of Showing Up

For Marcus, mentorship isn’t about having all the right answers. It’s about being present.

Through Stronger Than My Father, Marcus and his team work with young men both in schools and through weekend mentorship programs, teaching practical life skills while providing something equally important: consistency. Whether he’s helping a young man prepare for his first job, showing up at a football game, or simply returning to the same classroom week after week, Marcus believes trust is built by continuing to show up.

That commitment became especially clear when one student repeatedly asked whether Marcus would be back the following week. When Marcus finally asked why, the boy answered: “I wanna be sure you won’t leave me.”

About Stronger Than My Father

Stronger Than My Father mentors young men growing up without present fathers through school-based and community programming. The organization focuses on mentorship, accountability, practical life skills, career preparation, and consistent relationships that help young men envision and build a different future.

Resources

Stronger Than My Father

• Episode Transcript (Marcus Meneese on Signature Required)

  Carli Patton: Welcome to Signature Required. It is intended for Tennesseans by Tennesseans.

  Spencer Patton: Marcus Meneese, founder and executive director of Stronger Than My Father. Welcome to Signature Required. 

  Marcus Mensee: Hey, thank you guys so much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity. 

  Spencer Patton: Marcus Monise is the founder and executive director of Stronger Than My Father, a Nashville nonprofit mentoring young men growing up without present fathers.

  For more than 20 years, he has worked to equip young men with the discipline, life skills, and support that they need to succeed. You feel like that summarizes the mission of what you wake up doing and what you've been trying to do for the last 20 years? 

  Marcus Mensee: Yeah. I, it's, it's, um, what, um, I feel like I'm on this earth to do.

  Spencer Patton: Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: Uh, it took a while for me to accept, um, what I was supposed to do, um, in this life because, [00:01:00] you know, I didn't grow up with all these issues and problems that you see a lot of kids grow up with. So, um, I thought I was gonna have a whole nother path, a whole nother career path, and, uh, I dreamed it. I was like, "This is what I wanna do."

  I saw these guys wearing nice clothes, and I was like, "This is what... They're going to nice offices like we have here," and that's when I was like, "That's what I wanna do." Mm. And none of that never happened. Went to school in my, uh, early 30s and got my degrees, and none of it never happened. And I was like, "God, you know, why?

  Why? Why?" He said, "I need you to serve the fatherless, and I need you to go out there and help them and teach them the same thing your dad taught you." And my dad taught discipline. He taught how to dress. He taught how, um, it's important to look good when you walk out the door. Same thing I teach my two sons.

  Every day you walk out that door, you're supposed to look decent. Even though you're going to school, you look like a young man. So those are the skills that I teach when I do the in-school mentorship, when I do the weekend mentorship. I teach those skills to these boys so, 'cause a lot of the boys don't [00:02:00] really have the dad maybe enforcing that.

  So when the boys come to my mentor sessions, like, if you're not dressed right, you're not a part of it, you know? So I teach all these skills. Um, but the biggest part about what I do is that I'm present, uh, because most boys are always yearning for a male figure to be in their life. They're yearning for my dad.

  "Where's my dad?" Because you're gonna hear it at school. When kids leave school, "Oh, hey, Daddy, Daddy." Even my, my, my youngest son heard that before. Mm. He said, "I heard some kids say, where... You know, 'Hey, Daddy.'" And here goes my youngest, Jordan. "Dad!" You know? That's so important, but when it's absent, then all those feelings, all those emotions comes.

  Mm. And that's why this program is important to try to stabilize that. So when the boys see me every week at school, when they see me walking down the hallway at their school, and they see me peeking in their classroom, they know that somebody's holding them accountable. So all those things you read is what I am trying to teach.

  Um, these young men so they can one day become good fathers, good husbands. [00:03:00] So the goal for me is to prevent and teach. My dad did the things he did to prevent me from going down the wrong path. And was I the perfect son? I'm the middle child, probably gave my parents the most headache. But I learned over time just skills and development, reading.

  All right, why did my dad teach me this? Why did I do that? And that's how I developed to who I am now. 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Spencer Patton: Marcus, a lot of the people that we interview- Mm-hmm ... usually have a burdening for what they do- Mm-hmm ... because they experienced it. 

  Marcus Mensee: Yeah. 

  Spencer Patton: And this is true, like, food insecurity. Yeah. A lot of people we've come is like, "I was homeless."

  Mm-hmm. "I was hungry." Or, uh, we've had guests come on that have, uh, dealt with child trafficking and things- Mm-hmm ... that they have either personally experienced or it's touched them in a unique way. Um, maybe you can unpack that some for us because it sounds like you had a loving father- ... in your life, a [00:04:00] father that poured into you.

  Marcus Mensee: Uh-huh. 

  Spencer Patton: Um, and so maybe talk a bit about the moment where God talked to you and said, "You need to take care of the fatherless." That, that had to be some moment. So talk about how your heart got burdened for this. 

  Marcus Mensee: Um, my heart got burdened for this 23 years ago. Um, my mom come to me and she says, "I need you to mentor your cousin," who was three and a half years old.

  I was 27. And so I've always been a logical thinker. So first thing I question is my mom is, "Where is his dad?" You know, his mom had just recently died, um, uh, unfortunate from a drug overdose. And, um, my mom said, "He doesn't have a father." So I just kinda sat back and I was like, "All right, so you're telling me most of these kids are growing up without a dad like me?"

  And she was like, "Marcus, I didn't have a father." So my mom told me at 27 about her experience with not having a father. So I said, "Well, how do I help this kid, Ma? How do I help my cousin?" She said, "You like to teach, right?" And I said, "Yeah, I love to teach." She [00:05:00] said, "Well, teach him what your dad taught you." And that's how it happened.

  But over... Me and my wife at the time didn't have any kids, so I treated my cousin just like he was my son, and that's the only way I knew how to teach was just like my dad taught me. So, uh, from there, it was like a father-son relationship, you know. His aunt, his grandmother was my aunt. I would... They lived right down the street.

  I would pick him up all the time, and I treated him like he was my child, you know. We took pictures at Sears when you could go take pictures at Sears. And we had matching basketball jerseys. And he, he moved, uh, him and his, um, grandmother moved to Dover in 2006. And from there I was like, "All right, what do I do?

  He's gone," but we would fly him in every summer. That's a whole 'nother story. But I realized that, hey, Marcus, um, there are other kids who don't have a dad who's not gonna get certain skills. And then I got tired of seeing kids go down the wrong path. Mm-hmm. So I was like, "Why can't you teach them so they don't go down the wrong path?

  Be preventative," because [00:06:00] most of the things you talked about, and you mentioned in your question, is most people talk about after the problem is there. You know, the hunger. I went through this, I went through that. I didn't go through hunger. Uh, I interviewed my mom on my podcast and she said, "Marcus, you used to give your money to kids."

  Because you knew you had food at home to eat, so you wanted to be sure they... I didn't know I did all of that when I was a child. So for me, it's that, uh, I have a undergrad in psychology. I started thinking, "All right, if these kids are going down the wrong path, what can we do to, before they get there?" And that's how my teaching and my skill development, how those things- Mm

  um, developed. And so I figured maybe that's what I was supposed to do with my life. Maybe I'm supposed to help you because you didn't have what I had, and you can become a good young man, a good positive role model because somebody poured into you. And then when I was at Tennessee State, when I went to get my undergrad in psychology, I studied fatherhood.

  I did pretty much all my papers on fatherhood because I was drawn into looking at a [00:07:00] situation and problems that I was like, "Wow, kids don't have a dad." And then the, the crazy part of all this is, is that my wife didn't grow up with a solid father I never asked her. When I asked for her hand in marriage, I just said, "Who do I talk to, your mom or your dad?"

  Because I'm thinking logic. The first thing she said, "Talk to my mom." I never asked her, "Why don't I not talk to your dad?" Because I didn't understand how fatherhood worked until I started researching. And then I would ask my mom questions. I would ask my dad questions. And that's how all these things started popping in my head.

  Do, you know... Do I wish I had could do other things? Yeah. Do I wish I could live a private life my dad in the country with his goats and But yeah. But, um, you, you realize that, um, when you develop a relationship with God, you realize that once you understand your calling with your purposes in this life, I've seen the effects.

  I've seen the effects of boys, um, um, I mentored in the past. And, um, the young man I currently mentor now saw one of the guys I mentored in the past. They took a [00:08:00] picture, and it was like past and future. And the young man he took a picture with, I mentored him 12 years ago. Hmm. And so that's why I feel like what I'm doing is trying to be preventive.

  Yeah, I was lucky. My parents have been married nearly 55 years. I was lucky. I had solid f- I could've lived a private life, took care of just my wife and kids, could've done exactly what God wanted me to do. Had a regular job, can come in a nice office like this and work every day and go home and take care of my family, and I would be within my right.

  But it takes a special individual to come out their comfort zone and say, "Yeah, I was lucky." And I heard a preacher say that if God blesses you, your go- your goal in your life is to be a blessing to somebody else. So I've, I've already accepted that my life is to pour into other boys. And when I leave this world, I'm hoping that those seeds that I pour in become great fathers, so we don't have to have all these fatherhood conferences to fix problems because kids already know in their head.

  So everything we [00:09:00] underst- I, I, what I understand with psychology is that if you teach and develop, be there, teach, and then the ultimate thing, I have to still live the life. Mm-hmm. I can't go out here and say, "You gotta do all these things," and I'm going home, and I'm having domestic problems and need drink and none of that.

  So My mom always told me, and she's kept me in church, and that's a whole other story. My mom kept me in church and my dad worked me to death. Uh , but it was y- my mom said, "Always live the life, son." She said, "Always live the life that you're teaching into these boys," and that's what I do. Mm. So when them boys see me, they don't see, they s- A- and I asked this teacher, um, when I, I'm gonna go to Western Middle after this.

  I said, "Why do them boys come back every week?" And she says, "You look like something they have never seen." Mm. Mm. "They're used to seeing the bad guys. They're used to seeing guys cuss and all these other things, but you show them a different light." Mm. And I work hard for that, and that's where God wants me to be in [00:10:00] my life.

  Mm. And that's what I do, and that's what I pour into these boys, and that's why I feel like those things are important for me. 

  Carli Patton: You keep saying you were lucky- Mm-hmm ... to have your dad in your life. Mm-hmm. And then in the next breath, your mom kept you in church- Yeah ... and your dad worked you to death. 

  Marcus Mensee: Yeah.

  Carli Patton: You're in the middle of three boys, right? 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm. 

  Carli Patton: Tell me what your dad was like. Like, who is this man that has inspired these skills that you're mentoring the next generation with? 

  Marcus Mensee: Uh, my dad's very quiet. My dad doesn't talk a lot. Um, he doesn't. My dad doesn't talk a lot. A lot of things I saw through him's teaching was through my eyes.

  Carli Patton: Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: My eyes, eyes is almost your best teacher. Anybody can talk, but your action speaks louder than words. So my dad was always quiet. Um, he was always reserved. Um, he always made sure me and my two brothers were with him at all times. So if he was working on a vehicle, we all outside working on it. So when we had the Nintendos and all that, we had to wait till rainy days to play because every time my dad was working, he said, "I wanna show you that."

  [00:11:00] And I remember, um, in 2005, we was at our church, um, um, marriage retreat, and my mom and dad spoke, which my dad is not gonna speak. My mom's a natural-born teacher. Uh, I developed some of my teaching skills from my mother. My, they said, asked my dad did he wanna say anything, and the first thing he said was is that, "I work my boys really hard."

  Um, and he also said, "People make fun of me because how hard I work my boys." But he said, "If I die tomorrow, they know how to make it." Mm. And that was, that was what? 20 something years ago. My dad's always been the teacher, but he taught through his work ethics. And so even now, uh, my dad just turned 76, he's on his last leg of cutting grass, so I have to help him.

  There's times where I have to stop doing what I'm doing, go get my grass cutting clothes, and I help my dad. And my wife told me this 'cause she just recently lost her father a year ago. She says, "Marcus, enjoy every moment you're out there with your daddy." Mm. She told me that. And so, 'cause I don't think about that.

  I just go out there and cut grass and [00:12:00] go home. I don't think about the moments and, you know. I know we're gonna die. I mean, that stuff gonna happen. But, um, but I took that to heart, so when I'm out there cutting with him now- Mm ... the days he asks me to help him, when it was 105 and I'm out there helping him, ready to pass out, I, I said I enjoyed these moments with him because I never knowing, you know, his time on this earth gonna be up.

  But the things I can save through him is that his legacy will live on because he'll see it through his children. He see how I'm raising my two sons. Um, I was on the National Christian Magazine, uh, about two years ago, and it was a picture of me and my two boys on the front cover, and I told my dad, "That's what you built.

  You built two bo- a, a son who listened to you, who followed your examples, and now you seeing it to my two boys." So when my dad comes to church and he could see his grandsons and he could see his granddaughters, he could see they look presentable. He could see that my o- my youngest brother is following the same leads as my dad.

  So that's all I know. [00:13:00] When you raised in a household and that's all you see, that's all you gonna know. 

  Carli Patton: Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: I don't know what domestic violence look like. My dad never hit my mother. I never seen what's cussing out- In the home was, 'cause my dad always treated my mom like a queen. Now my dad's old school, he's country.

  He's, he grew up in the country. He, he's not like most city guys. He's not that guy. He's very quiet and reserved, and he's always, he's always thinking before he makes a move. So that's what I built in me. Now, do I have everything of my dad? No. Um, he didn't want me to become an entrepreneur. He didn't want me to run a non-profit.

  He wanted me to... I worked in a factory for nearly 20 years. He was like, "You stay there because you know you'll always get a check." So when I left in 2018 to do what I'm doing now, he was hot because the first thing he's thinking is, is that what if money gets low? How you gonna take care of your family?

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: And so that's how my father is. And so we have a great relationship. Um, he's already told me his wishes when he leaves this earth, which is what I need. He told me that five years ago. And so [00:14:00] that's how I built my life, is through him. Um, d- is it all... I'm about 90% of my father. Some 10% not gonna do some of them things that he does.

  Um, but that's how I was raised, and that's what I know to teach. And then the things I've learned through reading and being, you know, seeing the working class and seeing people, I've, I've learned different things through reading and how to help train young men, and I pour the same things in them. But the first thing I see when I see my boys today is that you don't look presentable That's the first thing.

  My dad, when he sees us, my mom, they both strict, they were both strict on appearance. When we go to church and they see their grandkids, their grandkids better look presentable or my mom's gonna pull us to the back and she's gonna go off on you. 'Cause she's gonna say, "I don't want my grandkids looking like that."

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: So that's how my dad was, and my dad, um, is very quiet, very reserved. He would never do anything like this. Uh, that's the 10% I tell you about my dad. Yeah. He would never do it. I begged him come on my podcast, and he was like- He 

  Carli Patton: [00:15:00] was like, "Absolutely 

  Marcus Mensee: not." "No, I'm not doing it." And I even told, I said, "Hey, we're gonna do Auto Mechanics for our first session.

  I want you to come out there." And he just looks at me like- ... "No, I ain't doing it." So I gotta beg him to come next Saturday. Um, he's been in one of my sessions, um, where we had him introduce his voice, but that's my dad. He's very reserved. He's very quiet. But the more we've talked over the years, he's learned that everything he learned, he was the youngest out of his, uh, siblings.

  He learned... He was under his dad. We talked about that Sunday when he was at church. Um, he said, "I learned... I stayed under my dad. I watched him." And so my dad- Mm ... saw his siblings' mistakes, and he says, "I don't wanna go through that," and that's how he trained us and taught us, and that's how we developed. 

  Carli Patton: It's such a biblical model, too, this idea of apprenticeship, right?

  Yes. You're not doing... Apprenticeship, we think of it as you're gonna learn the skill and do the skill your whole life- Mm-hmm ... but it's character development through- Yes ... apprenticeship, and that's the model of Jesus was a carpenter because- Mm-hmm ... Joseph was a carpenter, and these [00:16:00] things get passed down.

  What I love when I hear you talk, too, is your dad's a big influence, but it sounds like you got the best from both your mom and your dad. 

  Marcus Mensee: Yeah. 

  Carli Patton: And I think one of the things that you're talking about that's so powerful is that when there is a strong man in the house- 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm ... 

  Carli Patton: then a mom gets to be a mom.

  Marcus Mensee: Yep. 

  Carli Patton: She doesn't have to be a mom and a dad. 

  Marcus Mensee: Yep. 

  Carli Patton: And then you have the benefit of having both types of nurturing and training- Yeah ... not just one. So I think that's really powerful. Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: Yeah, and I think the, the biggest thing, he taught me so many skills. I should write a book about it. Everybody keep telling me to do it.

  You probably should. He, he, he taught me a lot of skills. One main skill he taught me was, he says, "If you get home before your wife, you better make sure dinner's ready." 

  Carli Patton: Oh, I 

  Marcus Mensee: like 

  Carli Patton: that skill. 

  Marcus Mensee: He says, "If you're home at 4:00, 4:30, and your wife don't get home till 7:00, why are you sitting there on the couch when she comes home, she gotta cook?"

  So when I left the factory in '18, I was home in the afternoons, so I get on her nerves now. I may call her [00:17:00] when I leave here, "What you wanna eat tonight?" "I just got to work. How you know? I don't know," you know? It's, I'm always thinking father mode and making sure when she comes home, if she's home at 7:00, all you gotta do is sit down, change clothes, eat, watch TV, go to bed.

  That's what he taught. He taught me another skill. He says, "Son, if you have a hard day and you come in that garage," he said, "before you get out the car, leave them problems in the garage. You walk into that house and your kids need to see a loving father when you come into the house." I have never seen my dad come in the house and just go off on everybody.

  Never seen it. That's why I said a lot of things I learned of problems in the world I saw on television. Or when I got old, when I got 18, I started going to college, I started seeing things like this ain't normal. And, you know, because of what I saw in the house. So my mom told me another good quote. She said, "The greatest impact you can have on a child is what they see in the house."

  Spencer Patton: Hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: So when I go to schools and I'm helping these kids, [00:18:00] these... I was talking to a principal at West End Middle. He said, "A lot of these kids are carrying their problems from home to school. That's why you have a lot of issues, because they're carrying the weight. They're not carrying a lot of love from home.

  They're not carrying... There's not that hug, or if a, a single mom is trying to do both roles, making... You know, they're frustrated and stressed out, so they may go off. You know, these kids carry a lot." So Was I lucky? Yeah. Or we could say the word blessed. Um, either one, I was that. And, um, the thing that I wanted to do was always make my parents proud.

  You know, was I the bad kid growing up? Was I disobedient? Yes. I'd say middle school till I was 21, I was not the perfect child. I've never been to jail, never been to juvenile, but I would lie to my dad. And one day he got fed up and he's like, "You're going to the Army. Don't come home until you enlisted."

  And my mom told him, "I don't want Mark to go." So I was 21, I sat both of them down and I says, "From here on, I'll never cause y'all any problems." [00:19:00] And I'm 50 now, and that happened when I was 21. Told them, "I'll never cause y'all any headache." So when they would see me on television handing out turkeys, uh, when they...

  Other people interview me for the work that I do, my dad could sit back and says, "Okay, I see why Mark left the factory. I see why Mark is doing what he's doing." Because my dad now, when he came to that mentor session last year, he saw us pointing to these... All my mentors, we were pointing to young men who don't have what I had.

  They saw me sitting with my dad- 

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm ... 

  Marcus Mensee: at the session. They saw me sitting with him. Mm. Um, and there's a picture on Facebook. If you go to our Facebook page, you'll see a picture of me sitting beside my dad, and that's what, um, I'm trying to do for these boys. I'm just trying to not be their dad. I'm just trying to be a big brother or somebody you know that's in my life.

  And even on my, our Instagram, if you look at the first post, that's KJ, one of my... He's, he's like my child. Um, and first thing he says, "Mark is act like my dad even though he's not my father." He said that. [00:20:00] Um, I go to KJ's football games. Now, I don't tell people. I, I, I try to post... I don't want, I don't want, I didn't want to post for everything that I do- Yeah

  just for an applause. I go to KJ's, only his home games. I say, "Look, I can't go away. You drive. It's too far." But when he come out the tunnel at his home game, he always sees me. Yeah. He see me walking out, and I... And he's been playing football since sixth grade, and I do his home games for football and basketball.

  Carli Patton: That's so cool. Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: And I do that, and I have to drive from Antioch to Hendersonville. 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah, yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: That's a long 

  Spencer Patton: haul. 

  Carli Patton: That's a haul. Well, that's no short distance. How do your boys feel about that? 'Cause you have two sons- 

  Marcus Mensee: Yes ... 

  Carli Patton: and your whole career is around mentoring- 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm ... 

  Carli Patton: the fatherless- Mm-hmm ... in the community.

  How do you balance that when you've got two boys that you don't want to feel fatherless- Mm ... 'cause you wanna pour into them? I imagine that mental load of you're just fathering all the time. 

  Marcus Mensee: Uh, they go to every mentor session. 

  Carli Patton: Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: [00:21:00] Um, e- ever since I started doing weekends in 2022, they go to every session.

  Mm. They gotta get up. They, they get it worse than the other boys. I'll say that. 

  Spencer Patton: That sounds like something your dad woulda 

  Marcus Mensee: done, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You worked your boys hard. Yeah. So they, they go to every session. Um, if I go to games and I ask, say I wanna go, they'll say yes or they'll say no, they don't wanna go.

  They have accepted it. They look at, um... The first kid I mentored fully in 2013, my youngest son was, gosh, I don't know how young he was. My oldest son was very young. He was with me every session. There's pictures of him with me taking boys out to eat. Uh, one of the young men, second young man I mentored was on my podcast, and he said that, "You was like a superhero to me."

  Mm. He said, "You be fussing at your youngest, your oldest son, and fussing at me at the same time." And so- 

  Carli Patton: It's called multitasking, Marcus ... 

  Marcus Mensee: yeah. Yeah. Because he, the young man that, that, um, took the picture with KJ this past Saturday, um, my oldest son, my oldest son used to go with me. He was probably in, like, [00:22:00] third, second, third grade at the time.

  Mm-hmm. But my oldest came with me everywhere I went. So they understand what Dad's doing. My oldest, "Hey, Dad, we got a mentor session Saturday." "Yeah." And so they know they gotta get up super early, 7:00. Get both of them up. Make sure you eat something to eat. We gotta go to the center, make sure the center's ready to go.

  That's every first and third Saturday. That's so cool. So, so yeah. 

  Spencer Patton: Hmm. Marcus, you said something earlier that I think is really wise, which is a lot of efforts to fix problems are downstream. Mm-hmm. You know, you're dealing with hunger, you're dealing with prison, you're dealing with situations that do need addressing then, but you're trying to go upstream and try to address- Fatherlessness.

  Mm-hmm. Um, will you go one step further with me upstream from there- 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm ... 

  Spencer Patton: and help explain why there is such an epidemic of fatherlessness- [00:23:00] Mm-hmm ... to begin with? Mm-hmm. 'Cause you have seen up close and personal through so many kids whose lives you have changed- 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm ... 

  Spencer Patton: fathers absent. Help us understand why this epidemic is so significant and so pervasive.

  What are you seeing? 

  Marcus Mensee: Um, I think everything's just about what have you been taught. 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: Um, as a child, you, you know, your brain's gonna always develop. 

  Spencer Patton: Hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: And most things, most guys are gonna do what they have seen. And if you never had a dad to model after, who you gonna model after to be a dad? 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: God gave us the mechanisms to have sex.

  Mm-hmm. So that's gonna happen. Mm-hmm. But the discipline of men, um, producing children, you got men that's never been healed, who got hurt, who's upset. They just assume, "I'm gonna lay with this woman and produce a child, and I'm w- 'cause I don't know how to be a dad." [00:24:00] Um, the great, uh, Maurice Clarett, running back from Ohio State- Hmm

  said it best. Uh, I met him two years ago. He was speaking at, um, City Current. He said he learned how to be a father through reading books in prison. 

  Spencer Patton: Hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: Hmm. There was no model. Who teaches you? Everything in life is about learned behavior. Yeah. If you never had nobody to teach you, what I said earlier in the podcast is that when young men, like my youngest son, Jordan, who's 11, don't have a male to train him, he's angry.

  Those angers, those feelings, they start erupting up, and you, you're upset, you're mad. And you don't know what it takes to be a dad. I knew what it took because I saw what my dad did. If I never had that example, who would teach me? 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: Hmm. Somebody gotta teach you how to drive one day, right? 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm.

  Marcus Mensee: Somebody gotta teach you. So the epidemic is because you see a lot of men who has not been healed, a lot of men who's hurt, their dad's not there, a lot of men that's angry, [00:25:00] and then that anger can turn all kind of facets. So, um, the young man, uh, I know a young man in my program whose father cheated on his mom, got another girl pregnant, and decided to leave, "I'm gonna stay with her instead of taking care of my main family."

  That kid started having anger issues. 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: His mom said, "I need to put him in a program." Found me. She told me the situation. Why you think I show up at KJ's games? 

  Carli Patton: Hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: I'm teaching KJ now what to do, how to do it. KJ, there is no excuse. W- don't just go out there and lay with women. I'm teaching him these skills now.

  Mm. I'm teaching these boys, if you start doing this now, I show you problems and consequences. I c- we can watch videos and everything. I'm gonna show you. Mm. So if you ain't disciplined enough... I'm married, been married 25 years. I told him, "I gotta do the same thing that you do." Mm-hmm. I can't go out there and go, go make a child- [00:26:00] 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm

  Marcus Mensee: because it's gonna come with problems. So why can't men become disciplined enough to say, "You know what? We gonna do the, quote-unquote, 'I'm gonna wait till I get married.'" But we know that's not the world we live in. Let's just be honest, it's not the world we live in. 

  Carli Patton: Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: But I know it come with problems. So my, and just, this is just Marcus' opinion, and your viewers may see it a whole lot different, is that a lot of them have a lack of discipline.

  Um, the, the age of cellphones and social media's telling young men, "Oh, go out there and have sex. Don't worry about it. The government gonna take care of them." You have all these situations, and that's why you have a uptick- 

  Spencer Patton: Mm. Mm ... 

  Marcus Mensee: in, of kids going to have sex. My parents told us the problems that you gonna run into.

  Yeah. And, and then I started seeing the problems. So I've seen the numbers of kids growing without dads. Um, I've seen a uptick in numbers. But what... I said, "What can I do to try to help prevent him from going down the same path?" 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: That's why the organization called Stronger Than [00:27:00] My Father is teaching you how to develop the mindset to say, "Yes, I didn't have a dad, but I can think a lot different and be there for my kids."

  Mm-hmm. And that's why I feel like the, the, the biggest uptick is discipline and men not understanding the value of raising a child. 

  Spencer Patton: Mm. Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: Uh, there's a kid that I go to Memphis to go see, um, about every quarter. He used to be in my program here in Nashville, but when he left, uh, his mom had to move back to Memphis 'cause she was a single mom.

  She needed help. He looked at me dead in the eye, he's the same age as Jordan, and he said, "Can you come see me?" Say you got it. So every quarter, me and my two boys get in the car, we drive two hours and 45 minutes to the outskirts of Memphis to go see him. Mm. Mm. That's what I do. But like I said, to answer your question, I think the biggest thing is just it's a lack of discipline, and I think it's no one teaching you the value of women.

  Spencer Patton: Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: No one's teaching you that. Mm. You just been... You sh- [00:28:00] if you've seen, and again, you go back, if you see your mom being promiscuous and having s- if you see that- 

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm ... 

  Marcus Mensee: what is your mind gonna tell you? 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: Everything that goes through your eyes go through your brain. 

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm. '

  Marcus Mensee: Cause you see it. And so, um, that's why I feel like it's, it's a big issue.

  Um, if you go to prison or juvenile, 90% are, um- Yeah ... saying, "I never had a father figure." And you're gonna hear a lot of them say these words, "No one ever talked to me. No one ever taught me." Mm. And so you have a pandemic that no one really talks about. We see the problems, and you see it on television every day.

  Mm-hmm. When you see kids carjacking, you keep seeing it doing... No good father is gonna teach... You think I'm teaching my kids to go carjack somebody? You think I'm teaching MJ and Jordan this? 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: No. No. Yeah. But because when you don't have a lack of discipline and a cellphone now with all these social media stuff, kids' brains right now are trying to figure it [00:29:00] all out.

  And they'll say, "Oh, that's cool. Let me do that." Mm. And so that's my opinion of the fatherless situation. I think it's just, again, it's young, young men don't really understand. And like I said, my parents, I think they scared us to death. Yeah. 

  Carli Patton: And it, it sounds like it was effective- 

  Marcus Mensee: Yeah ... 

  Carli Patton: if we're being honest.

  Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: Yeah. Yeah. 

  Spencer Patton: Mm. I really appreciate that answer 'cause- Mm-hmm ... there's a generational cycle- 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm ... 

  Spencer Patton: that you talk about on your podcast, and I think you do a great job of explaining that it is a generational pass-down issue- 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm ... 

  Spencer Patton: that we've gotta find a way to break that cycle. And I just wonder if you had kind of unlimited resources and some creativity to say, what are some other ways that we as a society [00:30:00] could be a little bit more radical to teach family- Mm-hmm

  to teach parenting? Um, because like I wonder why in school- 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm ... 

  Spencer Patton: we don't have a class where kids have to learn about marriage- 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm ... 

  Spencer Patton: or have to learn about parenting. 'Cause, like, that's gonna be the overwhelmingly largest statistical determinant- 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm ... 

  Spencer Patton: of their lives. Mm-hmm. Like, if you have an intact family, the percentage that you're gonna be in poverty goes way down.

  Mm-hmm. Homelessness, way down. Mm-hmm. Prison, way down. But our schools totally ignore this concept, right? Mm-hmm. Like, we're gonna go in and we're gonna learn about all these- Mm-hmm ... kind of fancy subjects and all this arithmetic and things that you're probably never gonna use in life. 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm. 

  Spencer Patton: But the very things that we're gonna use, no one's teaching.

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm. 

  Spencer Patton: And so [00:31:00] I just wonder what your thoughts are. Is it, is it church's responsibility? Mm-hmm. Is it school's responsibility? As I'm trying to get at the root of the issue 

  Marcus Mensee: Wow, that's a heavy question. I don't know which area to go with that. I think number one, I would say, um, schools are designed to educate kids.

  That's number one. The issue with schools and why you see teachers ... I was talking to this guy this morning when I was dropping my son off. Teachers gotta be teachers, counselors, and parents now. 

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: And, and the- And security sometimes, right? And security. I mean, yeah. Exactly. 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: The biggest teaching that's gonna change a child's life is what they see in the home.

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: You not... You can't change that. Can churches teach it? Yes. They still gotta go home. 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: Anything a ch- If you're gonna teach a child, they still gotta go home. Hmm. For me, it's that I write problems on the board. Hmm. When I do my sessions, all right, [00:32:00] get a girl pregnant, write five problems that's gonna happen.

  I want t- I want you to see what you gonna have to deal with. Right. Then I ask them, "Do you wanna deal with that?" Yeah. Hmm. Hands-on teaching i- is the biggest thing. I think churches can teach, but I think you have to teach parents, especially single parents, how to act raising a child. A lot of single parents gotta learn how to sacrifice for their child and say, "You know what?

  I'm not gonna mess around with a bunch of guys. I'm gonna teach my son the proper way of how to treat a woman." Put them in a, a, a real good solid mentorship program. Get them early and develop them early as possible. Hmm. Um, that's my whole way of teaching. And my sons, and like I said, it's discipline as well.

  My sons see me every day interacting with my wife at home, every day. Just like I saw my mom and dad interact, my kids see the same thing. Um, they see how I speak to her. They see how I talk to her. They see how I touch her. They [00:33:00] see everything because their brain is trying to figure out, is this the way I'm supposed to go?

  Hmm. So schools will never be able to teach kids how to be great parents. I don't think that's gonna happen. I think churches can have... I don't see... Now, here's the thing I don't see in church, and I hope I don't get in trouble for this. I don't see conferences on developing the family. I have never seen a church conference say, "We're gonna use these three days.

  We need as many dads to come out. We need as many moms come out. We need kids. We're gonna teach the, the value of family, teach the skills of what it takes to raise a good family." I haven't seen that. Now, I've seen re- uh, and I'm in a Black church uh, and I'll probably get in trouble for this, but I've just seen more things about revivals and stuff to help people feel good.

  Huh. Hmm. But you still gotta go home. 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: That's the... The home, the home is where everything gets taught at. That's where e- that's what it... All my teaching came from my house. My spiritual life came from the church, but my development came from what I saw [00:34:00] my mom and dad do. Single moms can raise a young man to a certain point, but single moms gotta watch, again, same as myself, gotta watch how you live.

  You can't live any kind of way and then you expect your son to say, "Hey, I'm not gonna go do this." It's not gonna work. You can't do that. Me, I can't live in... I'm tempted to do wrong every day I wake up in the morning. 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: Yeah. I'm tempted to do wrong. That's 

  Carli Patton: good. 

  Marcus Mensee: But at the end of the day, something's gonna come with it.

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: I work with a lot of single moms. Mm-hmm. And I'm married You don't think the thoughts come through my head? Yes. Yeah. At the end of the day, something's gonna come with it and you don't know what move God's gonna make. 

  Carli Patton: Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: You don't know what move he gonna make. Mm. 

  Carli Patton: Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: So I tell people, "You can control your decisions.

  God controls the consequences." I'm scared. 

  Carli Patton: It's a healthy fear. 

  Marcus Mensee: It's a healthy fear. Exactly. Yeah. So, so for men, they have to develop that skillset. [00:35:00] So when you see a woman walk with a fa- you gotta know how to say, "You know what? Yeah, you look nice, but I can't mess with that." 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: Because anything I do, uh, my old supervisor, God rest his soul, gave me one of the best advice when I was working in the factory.

  He said, "Put your kids on the front of your phone." You look at my phone, he's, my two kids. He said, "Before you make a bad move, you look at your kids on that phone- 

  Carli Patton: Mm ... 

  Marcus Mensee: and you ask yourself, is it worth it?" 

  Carli Patton: Mm. 

  Spencer Patton: Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: That's been the best advice. 

  Carli Patton: And so practical, too. 

  Marcus Mensee: Exactly. And so in my program, there's not one woman to say, "Marcus tried to mess with me."

  My wife will tell you, "Marcus is scared of everybody." He is. Um, but it's, it's all through training and development. 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: It's train- 'cause I've seen the effects of fathers messing around on the wives. I've seen the effects of the children. 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: I seen with my own eyes of fathers not being there for their children, of fathers that messed up, [00:36:00] fathers that wasn't father to their children.

  Can preach a great sermon- Mm ... but what's happening in the home? Mm. That's the problem- Yeah ... that a lot of people don't talk about. But I wish they would do conferences where you, you do interaction, let kids see interactions of fathers and mothers inter- I mean, do a conference on that. I'll go to conference for that.

  But I, I, I think if churches really wanna do something, do a fatherhood, a fam- a fa- a family conference, and somebody really teach what it takes to raise a... So a child can see that. Mm. Because we was all children before. Mm-hmm. What's going through your eyes- 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm ... 

  Marcus Mensee: at your age now that you've seen to develop you to be a wife, to be a husband?

  You know, your job's protect your wife. At all costs, your job is to make sure she is safe. Yeah. That's what my wife said. I see her on the security camera, "You leaving now?" She'll say, "Are you spying on me?" I was like, "I just saw you on the camera to make sure you good," you know? But that's just Mar- this is Marcus' way.

  And so [00:37:00] I, I, I promise, I don't pat myself on the back, say, "Oh, I ain't messing with no..." I don't, I don't, I don't do all that stuff because it's the right thing to do. Mm. It's the right thing to do because at the end of the day, I want my two sons to be good fathers one day. Yeah. Mm. So I have to be the what?

  Example. 

  Spencer Patton: Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: So they can be good kids, good role models. My wife tell you all the time, my oldest son's named after me, and she said, "All he wanna do is be just like you." Now my son's more affectionate than me. I say that he's very affectionate, uh, th- than, than I am. Um, but, um, I, I, I've said I wanted to be the best father, so if I died tomorrow, my two kids know how to make it.

  Carli Patton: Well, and I think it's interesting. It sounds like a chicken and egg problem, right? Yeah. It's everyone has to go home- Mm-hmm ... whatever your home is, and if you don't know what you're doing, you don't know what you're doing. 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm. 

  Carli Patton: And I think- I can even say in my own life, we have one son. 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm. 

  Carli Patton: And no one [00:38:00] warned me the emotions of a boy.

  Yeah. Because I think everyone was like, "Oh, you've got three daughters, you better watch out. All of those hormones," right? 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm. 

  Carli Patton: My son has as much, if not more emotion- 

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm ... 

  Carli Patton: than my girls, and he still worries, and he still gets anxiety- Mm-hmm ... and he still gets anger, and he will still punch a wall. 

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm.

  Carli Patton: Right? And I have thought in leading up to this podcast, I don't know what I would do- 

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm ... 

  Carli Patton: if I couldn't look at Spence and be like, "I, I don't know what to do with this masculine energy." Mm-hmm. It doesn't- I can't talk to him the way I talk to my girls. And I say that out loud to say I think we all assume- 

  Marcus Mensee: Yeah

  Carli Patton: especially if we were raised in a household with two parents. I was blessed. My parents got divorced and remarried. I have four great parents. 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm. 

  Carli Patton: It's like I have an abundance of parents, right? And I still wouldn't know what to do for my son- Mm-hmm ... if I didn't have a helpmate- Yeah ... to talk to. And I think that there's this bias that you assume you would know.

  Marcus Mensee: Yeah. 

  Carli Patton: If you were in that position, you would never let yourself get in [00:39:00] that position, and even if I was, I would know what to do. 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm. 

  Carli Patton: And I'm here to tell you, if you actually sat down and thought about your last six interactions with your kids, maybe the kid of the opposite gender- 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm ... 

  Carli Patton: or driving down the road, don't tell my kids, we will hide this podcast from them, there is more times I don't know what I'm doing- 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm

  Carli Patton: than I do, and I pull from experience, or I call my partner, and that is an embarrassment of riches- 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm ... 

  Carli Patton: that I have the opportunity to do that. 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm. Well, I think the, the one thing I would tell people is that if you don't know how to do something, research. 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: I think the, the biggest thing, the most powerful thing I tell people to do is to read.

  Read. My oldest son has autism. We found out when he was one, one and a half years old. My wife told me, uh, "MJ has autism." "All right, what is that?" I didn't know- Sure ... exactly what it was. I researched, and I started reading, and I said, "Okay, how do I develop him?" Because he has [00:40:00] a, um, he has a slight learning disability.

  He's functional. Mm, mm. Loves God. I ain't never seen nobody's child love God as much as I seen my oldest does. Loves God. And I said, "Okay, I gotta know how to help him in his development, teach him different skill sets." Um, I know that he's not gonna be kid to go on straight out of high school and go straight to college and go straight to do this.

  Okay, this may take three more years of development to get him in the right place. That's a job of my dad. I mean, my job as a father. But it is very hard. I have a soft spot for single moms, I really do, because it's a lot of work when you gotta do the cooking, the cleaning, washing clothes, and you gotta have a normal life yourself.

  God never intended it that way. We just know how the devil operates, and his job is to destroy something that God wanted to be so beautiful. But for you, it was never your [00:41:00] job to say, "How do I handle my son?" It's his job. 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: His job say, "You ain't gonna do..." Now, I will say he, my son knocked her the wall, it ain't gonna end well.

  So, uh, but I just said that, I'm sorry. But it's great that you have a helpmate. Mm. Because you see a lot of women losing their minds. 

  Carli Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: And they just snap because- You would ... this area is all on me. That's why I said a man has to learn to say, "Hey, if I'm going to impregnate you, it's my job to protect you."

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: Now, we may not always get along, and you may even divorce, but you should still be right there. 

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: Right there for that child because you're gonna remember. I know you remember the divorces. I can put money you remember all that stuff. 

  Spencer Patton: Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: You remember how it affected you, but you remember, "Hey, I wanna be a great mom.

  I'm gonna be the best mom I can be, and I got a great husband that can lead, help lead the family," 'cause that's his job, to lead the family. Make sure my wife is good, but I'm gonna lead the family, and that's a big responsibility. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. [00:42:00] So I don't want my wife stressed out over my boys I don't even like her taking him to get a haircut.

  I wanna do it. It's my job take him get a haircut. It's my... She'll say, "Oh, you busy. I'll take him." You know, I've shown up at the barbershop. I- she in the car, "What are you doing here?" "I, I just wanna see my boys get their haircut," you know. But that's me as a dad. I don't, I don't... I never wanted to put the pressure.

  That's why I told you earlier in the podcast, it's like cooking. We were trained to cook, me and my two brothers and my sister. My sister perfected it. Um, but we was trained to cook. And trained to keep you from being stressed out. That's my whole job. Told my wife, "Don't... I, my goal is to never try to get you stressed out."

  Carli Patton: Mm. "

  Marcus Mensee: If, if I need to fold the clothes, if we need to do whatever, tell me. 'Hey, guys, MJ Jordan, let's fold clothes.' It's no reason why your mama gotta iron all your clothes. We ain't doing that." But it's teaching them now how to iron, teaching them how to fold their clothes, teaching them skills, teaching them not to be on them cellphones and tablets.

  We don't play that. Mm. My youngest tests me all the [00:43:00] time, 'cause my dad told me that's God getting you back for what you did to us. But I, I think it's, it's, you know, it, it's, it's very... it's easier when the man can really take the family. Mm-hmm. It's really easy. It's so easier. 

  Spencer Patton: Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: Um, I just see, I see the moms that in our program, we have a moms support group as well called Moms With Purpose.

  I know y'all probably saw it on the website. And I s- I told my wife we gotta do that because if a mom calls me fussing, I don't know how to help you. Now, if you call me calmly, I can figure it out, but if you screaming on the phone, it's like my brain goes in this circle. I don't understand. But my wife... So I said, "Look, if we're gonna do it, mentorship this way," 'cause we started one-to-one, then we did group.

  I told her, "You... If a mom needs to flip out, call my wife." My wife's a great listener, and she'll listen to you and she'll pray with you. Then my wife know how to tell me calmly what I need to do. "Hey, so-and-so acting up." I say, "All right, um, where's he at?" If any of my boys act up, all the mom gotta do is put it on the app.

  I've shown up at schools, [00:44:00] um, scare the living daylights out of them. I said, "And I have another guy I call on my enforce. He's, like, 6'4". Um, somebody's showing up at your school or, or I'm gonna see you in the afternoon, but you're not gonna act up." You know, if I have a kid that's disrespect- very disrespectful, they'll put it on the, on the Band app we use and say, "Hey, Marcus, my son's acting up."

  I said, "All right, do I need to see him now or do I need to see him at school?" Mm. 'Cause if I see him at school, I'm gonna scare the living daylights out of you. Mm-hmm. And I've walked in classrooms while the teacher was teaching, said, "Excuse me, teach, I need to see him right now And he's like- That's worse than being called 

  Carli Patton: to the principal's 

  Marcus Mensee: office And you know what those kids say in the classroom?

  "Who daddy is that?" 

  Carli Patton: Yeah. Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: That's why I know fatherhood's for real. Fatherhood is real. It's a real thing, and until men decide in their minds that, "Yes, I got someone pregnant. It's my job to protect them at all costs." 

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: That's what we gotta- that's when you gonna start seeing change. Yeah. But that, that teaching is not gonna come at a conference, I'm sorry to say.

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: [00:45:00] I see a lot of fatherhood conferences. Um, some great people doing great work in teaching, but most of those guys that teach at them conferences had fatherhood issues. And so I feel inadequate to go, so I just don't go. Um, but I just feel like the teaching for men, young men, like your son is Spence, right?

  You know, he's, he's gonna watch you. He's gonna watch you. Mm. And he's gonna watch how you in- how you act all the time because he's gonna figure out, "That's who I'm supposed to be. I'm supposed to be you." 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: So for me, when you see my youngest brother, same as my dad. My youngest brother don't talk much.

  He ain't on no social media. He's very private, just like my dad. 

  Spencer Patton: Mm. Yeah. You know, Marcus, I had a mentor that told me it's so important for little boys to wrestle their dads. Mm-hmm. Because there's something very neurological happening that the [00:46:00] dad is the daddy lion in the household. Mm-hmm. And the little boy has to be reminded that he is not the daddy lion.

  Mm-hmm. And it's done in a playful way. It's done, it's why boys love to wrestle really little. Mm-hmm. But it's a, it's a test. Mm-hmm. And if there's no father in the household, all of a sudden that baby lion has to become the daddy lion of the household- Mm-hmm ... way before they're ready. 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Spencer Patton: And it has all kinds of implications on their development.

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Spencer Patton: And, and boys are more physical in nature. 

  Carli Patton: Yeah. 

  Spencer Patton: And it doesn't take too terribly long until they are physically stronger than their mothers. 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm. 

  Spencer Patton: And that dynamic is very biological in nature, too. 

  Marcus Mensee: Yeah. 

  Spencer Patton: That when a boy is physically stronger than somebody, it changes the dynamic. 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm. 

  Spencer Patton: And so, you know, my boy, uh, at seven, is not physically stronger than me [00:47:00] yet.

  Mm. There'll be a day. Mm-hmm. There'll be a day where he's physically stronger than me, but it's amazing to see that dynamic that he just naturally wants to wrestle with me, wants to- Yeah ... roughhouse with me, wants to test his strength against mine. Um- And it just speaks to even from a biological standpoint- Mm-hmm

  how important it is in boys' development to have that father beyond all the emotional piece. It's just a physical neurological need that boys have. Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: I think, uh, the, the, the hugging, the touch- Mm-hmm. 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah ... 

  Marcus Mensee: you know, my, my oldest s- my youngest, so I take him to school this morning. First thing I do, I, I rub his head and I just look at him, "Gotcha."

  Yeah. You know, we do it every morning, um, when I take him to school. My wife takes my oldest son to school, uh, 'cause my youngest school is a lot farther from the house than my, my oldest, but I pick both of them up from school. Hmm. Um, [00:48:00] every morning I'm talking to my youngest son as I'm taking him to school.

  Uh, same thing I did with my oldest son when I used to take him to school. Um, it's that mor- that he knows that I have some... You know, it, it's like, "I'm happy I have my dad with me." Yeah. I'm under his coverage. My youn- my youngest son is very smart. Like, he knows what happens in divorce. I'm like, "How do you even know that?"

  Because my son hears stuff at school. 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm. He hears a lot of stuff at school, and my mom used to tell me, "Whatever you hear at school, you better not bring it in this house." So if you hear the cussing and all that at school, you couldn't bring that in the house. Mm-hmm. Same thing with my youngest son.

  I said, "What if you hear at school, you don't bring it in this house. Now, if you have questions, you ask us." 

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: But you're not gonna bring it in the house. So I do understand the physical touch, the hug. And my dad was... And I'll tell you, my dad wasn't a hugger growing up. 

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: My dad was not a hugger.

  Um, but his father wasn't a hugger. Mm. See how- 

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm ... 

  Marcus Mensee: same thing happens? 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: I don't remember hugging my dad. In, in my 50 years, I don't remember hugging my dad maybe twice- Mm ... that I [00:49:00] can remember. When I graduated from college, I put my hand out 'cause I was so used to it. He said, "No, I'm proud of you." He gave me a hug.

  That's the only one I can remember. If he did- Wow ... as a child, I can't remember. Wow. Um, and I used to catch myself s- the same way. So I've always either hugged my boys, shake their hand, give them a good hug. Like when I saw them s- uh, two weeks ago at our open house, I grabbed them. "Man, I'm so glad to see you," and pick them up.

  And all my boys are on mentorship- Yeah ... because I understand that that's what they, you know, these boys desire that. Mm-hmm. Or I grab them, push them, you know, all those things. Yeah. Fist- You wanna go... You know, we do that, those things at our sessions, um, because I understand that every young man desires that.

  Carli Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: So what you're doing is right. I think just a young man, and I'll say girls, is o- they... Your children gonna watch you. They, they watch your every move. They watch you. My haircuts, everything came from my dad. Like, he... I watched him. And when I got older, [00:50:00] my dad's been the same for 76 years. Of my 50 years on earth, I have seen him the same.

  When I go see my parents and when I go down to the country, we go, um... My mom and dad j- my dad had his birthday. My mom bought him this, uh, one of them, one of them SUV tractors or something he can ride around the farm. And I seen how proud my dad was so happy for that. He's like, "Your mom surprised me." It's because my mom told me, "Your dad has sacrificed so much for us."

  Mm. And when he w- wanted to move to the country in '03, my mom really didn't wanna go, but she said, "I went to the country because I wanted to make your dad happy." Mm. "Your dad has sacrificed as a father for us. That's the least I can do, is move to the country where if she scream all night, ain't nobody coming to help her."

  Uh, but she did... And that's a teaching moment that- Yeah ... you know, if spouses work together- 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm ... 

  Marcus Mensee: you know, my mom, now she said, "When your daddy leave this earth, I'm outta [00:51:00] here." We- That's already been established. But she says, "Long as he on earth," she said, "I wanna make your dad happy because your dad sacrificed so much for y'all and myself."

  Mm. And for my mom not growing up with a dad at all, she said this at 12. I hope this don't make nobody tear up. She was working the cotton fields in Memphis, in Mississippi, excuse me, and she looked up to God when she was 12 years old, and she says, "God, bless me with a man that's gonna help take care of my children because I don't want my kids to go through what I'm going through."

  Mm. She said that at 12 years old, and God honored her prayer. My dad's old school country guy. My mom grew up in the city. M- she grew up in Memphis, moved down here to go to college, never went back. And they a match made in heaven. And my mom even told me this one day, scared the living daylights out of me.

  She said, "Mark, when your daddy go, I hope I go with him." That scared- Mm ... they, they truly... My dad, even his age, at 76, is always trying to protect my mother. Right. [00:52:00] At his age now. He talking about time, 'cause my dad didn't go to church much when we grew up. He didn't. But now they're older. My dad still got that protective dad mode at 76 years old.

  Spencer Patton: Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: What you think I'm supposed to do? 

  Spencer Patton: Mm. 

  Marcus Mensee: Same mindset. I get on my, I get on my wife last nerves. "Where you at? Why you coming home?" Yeah. You know. "You all right? You good?" Hey, y'all, I tell my boys, "Go greet your mom in the garage." They greet her in the garage. Soon as we get home, "Yeah, y'all, go, go say, make sure your mama good."

  So when she come in the house, she got groceries. I don't go get the groceries out the car. I make them do it. Yeah. Go get the groceries, make sure your mom is good. So why you think my kids have that affection? So when my youngest get up in the morning, he go grab his mom and give a hug every morning. Mm.

  Every morning. I may just say, "All right, see you later. I gotta go" you know. But that's, that's everything, that's, that's, that's how, that's how it's supposed to go. I know it's not, we gonna have these conversations forever about fatherhood and [00:53:00] father- Yeah ... I just tell people that you're gonna gr- kids gonna grow up one day- Mm

  and they gonna, nine times out of 10, they're going to do and act of what they've seen. Mm. They're gonna operate that way. Mm. And that's why I think it's important to teach them and teach discipline. That's all I'm doing in these schools- Mm ... is I'm teaching you discipline, even if you like it or not. 

  Carli Patton: So Marcus, you've blessed us so much.

  I feel like I've learned so much. Mm. And your stories have been so beautiful. Before we get to the end of this podcast, I really want people to know a little bit more about your organization and- Sure ... how it's structured. I know you've grown a ton, so- Yes ... before we do that, can you explain a little bit the structure of your program?

  Your... I've heard you say mentors- Mm ... and I've heard you say at schools and Saturdays, but you're in six different schools. Yes. You have Saturday mentorship. What is... Can you give us a few numbers or size and scope, just so people can understand where you're taking all this wisdom- 

  Marcus Mensee: Sure ... 

  Carli Patton: and putting it into practice?

  Marcus Mensee: Yes. I started with West End [00:54:00] Middle back in '24. 

  Carli Patton: Okay. 

  Marcus Mensee: Um, that's how the in-school started. The counselor reached out to me, and she said, "Would you be willing to come to school and talk with these boys every week?" And I said, "Yeah, I'll give it a try." And I fell in love with it. I was like, "Look," I, I told my wife, "I can teach them the skills and monitor them at school."

  So after two years, I told my wife, I said, "Ain't no, there is not any other male mentorship program in, in a lot of these schools." 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: Especially in Metro. And I said, "What if we just expanded?" And she said, "Well, how many schools can you go?" I said, "I can do probably five or six if I can get the schedule right."

  Mm-hmm. And that's how we, we went from one school last year to six schools now. I have four in Nashville and two in Williamson, in the special school district area. And, um- I go in and I teach. And like they, the boys come to the room, like when I was at the school, uh, at, uh, Freedom Middle, uh, in, in the, uh, Franklin School District, they come in like, "What are we doing in here?

  What are we doing here? Man, we ain't do nothing wrong." And I knew how to calm them down. [00:55:00] And when I left, their counselor looked at me, she said, "I don't know how you did that." Mm. She said, "You, them boys are like, out of control, and you like, you had them calm the whole time." I said, "I talked to them like a dad would talk to a son.

  That's how I did that." Mm. And then I would talk to them afterwards. I'd say, "You know you don't have to come to school wearing no house shoes to school. You need to come in here and look like a man." But he probably never had a man to tell him that. Mm. Because remember, his dress is coming from what he sees in his head.

  Carli Patton: Yep. 

  Marcus Mensee: So the weekends, um, started in 2022. I started in '13. I did one-to-one. One-to-one mentor, I would just randomly pick up a kid, no structure, try to help him. Did that for three years, and then, um, I was finishing up my master's and I found this after school program, and I fell in love with it. I thought, "I want to do after school now."

  So she says, "You need a building." So I end up partnering with Smith Springs Church of Christ, who's been the best partnership I've ever had, and I started after school. My youngest... My oldest son would come every day. I had my oldest son there, and it was great, and I had it for seven [00:56:00] years. But during COVID, my wife says, "I think you need to go back."

  'Cause I probably complained about the after school. I got sick of it. She, I, I complained all the time. And she said, "Why don't you go back to what Stronger Than My Father was originally for?" And she said, "That was for mentorship." And so I said, "All right, if I do it, it's gotta be in a group setting. I don't like one-to-one.

  We'll do it in a group." And that's what we've been doing since 2022. We started as a group with 20. We average around 20 to 25 kids a year. Um, we grew this year, and we got a huge waiting list. Um, we grew to... We didn't count. The problem is, is that we never counted how many we had. All my kids from last year returned except one, so I knew I was at around 18.

  Then we just started getting applications, applications, applications, and we was just interviewing everybody. And then we looked up at our orientation, we had over 35 kids. We was like, "Oh, we think, how are we gonna make this work?" So now I gotta balance and put everybody in different classes and find multiple teachers.

  And so my weekend sessions, I never like doing sessions where we just sit [00:57:00] in a circle and talk. Mm-hmm. I lose my mind. I say, "What if we do what my dad did for us?" He taught us everything hands-on. So everything... You look at our pictures from last year, everything we did was hands-on, from bringing in a cook.

  All my boys had to cook. Um, Smith Street had the great commercial kitchen. They had to learn how to cook with their hands. Um, they, they learned about drone flying. There's a career in the drone flying. They learned about, um, um, mechanical engineering. They had to build a plane from a blueprint. And you'll see the boys smiling because they had to get their hands, you know, ins- you know, hands learn how to build that.

  So every session I've learned now, and this, this was the first year I did hands-on. Last year was. So I said, "Let's do everything hands-on." So now I'm working on getting six mechanics to come to the session next Saturday. All the boys from my son Jordan age, who's 11, to the oldest, who's a senior in high school, everybody got to learn how to change a tire.

  Get your hand down there. Get your hands dirty. Pull that tire off, your hand's gonna get [00:58:00] dirty. They have to learn that. So I've learned everything they do hands-on, so that's how our weekend started. And then somebody brought up, said, "Hey, you know, Williamson County doesn't have a male mentorship program.

  Would you be open to the possibility?" And so I said, "Yeah, if I find a church." And then a guy who works in the foster system connect me to his church, which is Bethlehem United Methodist Church off of Bethlehem Loop Road, and we're looking to do the same thing. Now, I'm only doing one weekend there now 'cause it's just me.

  But hopefully by, uh, the fall of '27, there will be somebody else helping me, and that's why I figure my mentorship style is teaching leadership class hands-on, so it's teaching how to tie a tie, how to treat a lady. 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: So we have guys come in and teach them about how to treat a lady. Um, we had guys teach them about auto insurance Teach them what's gonna happen if you do- you text and drive.

  We're teaching these skills, and then, uh, I do everything else just hands-on. Um, I, I do every skill I try to do, I try... Every class we try to [00:59:00] teach is hands-on. We brought a guy, a DJ. I said, "Y'all may look at this as a side job, but you may want to get into music." I said, "He gonna bring his board. You learn what that computer's about, you learn what everything on that board's about."

  And the kids were there mixing music, and you could see the smiles on their face. Oh, 

  Carli Patton: I bet that was a blast. Yeah, yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: They were mixing music. And so my program is for all races. I have a kid that's white, Jamie. He's been in my program four years. I fuss at him just like I fuss at the Black kids. Yeah. I got Jamie his first job at a convenience store, um, a couple of weeks ago.

  And Jamie really struggled with confidence. And Jamie's tall as me now. He used to be a short... He used to be a small kid. And I said, "You got an interview before you go to school. Dress appropriately. Get here." Jamie gets there and forget his application at home, and I'm ready to g- I'm like, my mind ready to explode.

  And I said, "Where's your application?" He said... I said, "How... You can't forget your application, Jamie. You can't forget it." I said, "She's ready to interview you right now. You want a job, right? You want it, right?" He's like, "Yes, sir." I said, "You [01:00:00] gotta be ready. Gotta be ready." So I said, "Ms. Dowdy," I said, "I need another application."

  I said, "We gonna fill it out right now." And I says, "I'm about to leave you. The next call I get from you better tell me that you got the job." 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: And she called and said J- He said, "Mr. Marcus, I got the job, I got the job. Thank you so much." And I said, "All right. Your first day I'm gonna come in there and I'm gonna look at you.

  You better look presentable." He said, "Yes, sir." And that's the picture I show y'all to the podcast of me and Jamie. Mm-hmm. And who was right beside Jamie? My youngest son, Jordan. 'Cause Jordan said, "Daddy, we gonna go see Jamie at work?" That's how it works. I don't care about the race and all that. I mean, you, you, you got Black kids, white kids, you got kids growing without fathers.

  We need more people that's gonna sit and take time out of their lives. 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: I'm a father of two boys. You don't think I wanna rest on Saturdays? You think I wanna go play more golf on Saturdays? You think I wanna relax on Saturdays? I do. But the teaching side of me is that when I see my boys on Saturday...

  When we're at... When I saw, um, my photographer, I hope she- [01:01:00] I don't know if she got this shot, but it's a shot of, of all the parents. Mm. It was our largest group, um, since we started the weekend sessions, since 2022. All the parents, all the kids there, and I knew how to command a room. Now, I have great mentors, great mentors that comes out on Saturday to help me, but it's commanding that room.

  They know I'm all about business. And I would say this last story, and I'll be quiet, is that when I was at West End last... From the, the, the class that, the eight-grade class that just finished at West End, I had them in seventh grade. The last session I had with them back in May, I looked at every last one of them.

  I says, "When I come to your graduation, if I see any of you guys in a T-shirt and blue jeans, I'm gonna embarrass you on stage." 'Cause they gonna call me up and they gonna tell me about the program. I tell the parents about the program. I said, "I would embarrass you." When I got on stage, every last one of them had either a po- a polo shirt or a shirt and tie.

  Mm. 

  Carli Patton: Let's go. Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: And they said, and they said that. [01:02:00] They said, "Oh, Mr. Marcus gonna embarrass you." 

  Carli Patton: It is a healthy fear. Yeah. We're getting back to healthy 

  Marcus Mensee: fear. But, but, but, but that's how the program started. It has evolved. You can see it, it has evolved over the years. Mm. But our motto now is building up in schools where, um, kids have more of accountability.

  They see a presence every week at school. Mm-hmm. Because that's what, um, the school counselor told me at West End. I said... I would say... God, I have so many stories, y'all. I know we gotta go. Is, um, it was a kid used to ask her every week, "Is Mr. Marcus coming?" Every week she would ask him that. She would ask Miss Boone.

  "Yes, Marcus is coming. He'll tell you if he ain't coming." So one day I said, "Why do you keep asking if I'm coming every week?" He said, "I wanna be sure you won't leave me." And that got me. That's when I knew I was onto something with In School. Mm. He said, "I wanna be sure you don't leave me." Mm. And that kid, um, would see me every week.

  I show up every week. Mm. I show up in the classroom. I peek in his room. "Mr. Marcus." You know. [01:03:00] Is, is it tough what I do? Yes Is it hard financially? Yes. But the reward is, is seeing a kid... I realized that at the beginning, I told y'all podcast that my life, I have to sacrifice it to be a blessing to other people.

  Mm. I'm gonna do this, and then God's gonna take me home. I've accepted it, and I realized I'm not gonna have some of the things that I truly desire but I've accepted it. Um, so it gives me joy to get up and go do the things I do. Go to s- I'm heading to West End right after this podcast. Mm. I'm meeting two set of group of kids who's never, ever met me.

  Um, and you pour into them, and you teach them all these hands-on skills. We got people coming to the school who's gonna teach them h- we all coming to my car, and we gonna learn how to jack that car up. I'm gonna teach them those different skills. Um, but, um, my... I will say this as I- I'm done, is that my relationship with God had to get stronger to do this.

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: My relationship with God had to be really, really strong- Yeah ... [01:04:00] and develop that mindset, um, because this job what I do ain't for the faint at heart. Number two, I've never gone through what some of these boys has ever gone through. Yes. Yeah. I've never been through it. Um, and it gives me the s- I have to ask God for strength every day because the urge to quit is always there.

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: Yeah. The urge to say, "You know what? I'm out." I'm 50 now. I've been doing this since I was 27, 25, 27. And you're like, I, I just, I just wanna be... It's too much. I've told my mom ma- many times I told my mom, I said, "Mom, it's too much." And she says, "Marcus, your job is to save one child." She says, "Son, if you can go in that school, or if you can go on weekends, you can save one young man from going down the wrong path, you've done your job."

  That was the words that kept me from doing, for- Amen ... 'cause I- do that. So thank y'all so much. 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. That's awesome. Um, Marcus, the way that we end each podcast- Sure ... is I have, uh, a couple short sentences with a fill in the blank at the end. Sure. [01:05:00] So if you'll just, uh, repeat the prompt back to me. 

  Marcus Mensee: Sure. 

  Spencer Patton: And then you can fill it in with a word or a short phrase-

  that you feel like completes the thought. Okay? Okay. All right. Number one, a father doesn't have to be perfect, but he does have to... 

  Marcus Mensee: Be present. 

  Spencer Patton: Okay. So repeat the prompt back to me. So- 

  Marcus Mensee: Oh, man- 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah, that's right ... I forgot the question. 

  Marcus Mensee: So- I was waiting for the answer. I'm sorry. 

  Spencer Patton: A father doesn't have to be perfect.

  Marcus Mensee: Yeah. 

  Spencer Patton: But he does have to be... 

  Marcus Mensee: Yeah, a father doesn't have to be perfect, but a father has to be present. 

  Spencer Patton: Mm. Perfect. Number two, the biggest thing my father taught me about being a man was... 

  Marcus Mensee: Uh, the biggest thing my father taught me how to be a man is always... Oh, wow. Is- Keep a clean name. 

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: That was the biggest thing my father taught me, is keep your name clean, son.

  Spencer Patton: Hmm. 

  Carli Patton: Hmm. 

  Spencer Patton: And the last one, the most powerful thing a mentor [01:06:00] can give a young person is blank. 

  Marcus Mensee: Oh, the powerful thing a mentor can give a young man is always be present in his life. 

  Spencer Patton: Mm-hmm. 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm. Always be present in his life. 

  Spencer Patton: Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: So... 

  Spencer Patton: Marcus, I really so appreciate your passion, the really unique call- Mm-hmm

  that you have on your life. You've said a number of times that you know this is why God's put you on the earth. 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm. 

  Spencer Patton: And it's gonna mean that you have to sacrifice a lot of things. Yeah. You sacrifice your ultimate financial potential. You sacrifice your ultimate ability to do and travel and do all these things that you had dreams- Mm-hmm

  to do for yourself, but you are in the process of laying your life down, breaking generational cycles- 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm ... 

  Spencer Patton: for young men that can have the type of life that you've dreamed maybe you would have. [01:07:00] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so I just wanna encourage you and let you know that the impact that you're making is enormous.

  Marcus Mensee: Thank you. 

  Spencer Patton: And I'm excited to give, uh, your mission, your nonprofit- 

  Marcus Mensee: Mm-hmm ... 

  Spencer Patton: uh, your vision, uh, a little bit louder of a megaphone here. Yeah. 

  Marcus Mensee: Yeah. Yeah. Um- Thank you ... 

  Spencer Patton: and so thank you for spending time with us and being so truthful and so transparent, uh, about all the experiences that, uh, that you're having.

  Thank you. 

  Marcus Mensee: Oh, thank y'all so much. This was beautiful. Hmm. Uh, I checked you guys out, and so when I saw y'all, I, I was like, "Oh, this is gonna be cool." So I do appreciate it. Anybody that calls me to, to come speak, I, I'm truly honored, um, that you guys picked me. Mm-hmm. And, uh, you could have picked anybody else, uh, but you picked me to, to give the things that's in my head, and, uh, thank y'all so much.

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Thank you.[01:08:00] 

  Spencer Patton: Marcus Manese, founder and executive director of Stronger Than My Father A really relevant podcast for so many in America- Mm-hmm ... that their life is missing a father. And the data, the stats, just from a numbers perspective, are undeniable. If you do not have a father in your life, the probability of every bad thing is multiples higher- 

  Carli Patton: Mm-hmm

  Spencer Patton: than if you have an intact family at home. And Marcus is working on trying to break generational cycles, coming into situations where young men do not have fathers and have no ro- role model other than what they see on television or social media, and they're almost always seeing the wrong thing. 

  Carli Patton: Yeah.

  And we spend a lot of time, especially during our month on vulnerable people, [01:09:00] but over the last several seasons, we've spent a lot of times talking about some of the further down the stream, as you would say, issues, such as hunger, right, teen pregnancy, housing, all of these things. And I think anybody that works in those issues will tell you how insurmountable their s- pie slice feels while they're working on it, right?

  Mm-hmm. But how much more insurmountable does the crisis of fatherlessness feel? And so I just, I'm so grateful that Marcus exists. I'm so grateful that the Lord put this passion in his heart, because I think, to your point, it's probably the number one single issue that we should be dealing with in America right now, and number two, it's the most amorphous.

  As he said, you learn what you see, and it's a chicken and egg of what you see is what you get, is what you see is what you get. And it's easy to assume that changing that generational cycle is as much as, "I'm just gonna [01:10:00] choose different today," or, "I'm gonna read one book." But it's a lifetime of discipline, of being different than your entire community.

  Mm-hmm. And we can't assume that that is easy for anyone. And so I just really appreciate his practicality- Mm-hmm ... that he brings to the situation. I appreciate his heart. I appreciate that he cares about each kid. He's not trying to grow so fast that he loses the heart of what he's doing, which is one kid at a time, getting the consistency and life skills they need to live a different life.

  Spencer Patton: You know, as someone that has distinct memories of father figures in my life, even my grandfather, one of the great joys that you don't appreciate until you're older are all the things that you were invited to do that you felt like you were important to do, but really, you were not only [01:11:00] not important to the issue, you were actually making the process slower.

  And I can remember my grandfather would put up Christmas lights every year outside of his house, and he would wait to do a section of the house until I got there. He lived in Georgia, we lived in Tennessee. And so I just knew that my grandfather needed my presence there in order to put up some of these lights.

  And obviously, as you get older, you appreciate that you're invited to get to do those things, to share in that joy and that experience, and missing those parts really creates a hole. 

  Carli Patton: Hmm. 

  Spencer Patton: And it would create a huge hole in my life of story after story where we're invited to get to do something for [01:12:00] the shared experience.

  And you learn skills. You learn from those moments. Sometimes you learn what you should be and what you wanna be, and other times you learn what you don't wanna be. 

  Carli Patton: Hmm. 

  Spencer Patton: And those are also very valuable lessons. You can learn both, and I think anybody honest will say, "I've learned some of those things from my dad or grandfather that I wanna be like, and some things that I don't."

  And that's, I think, the essence of masculinity trying to improve itself from generation to generation.