Melanie Shinbaum on Fixing the Early Childhood Education Crisis
Melanie Shinbaum, Executive Director of the Nashville Early Education Coalition Fund, joins us to discuss the critical challenges facing early education in Tennessee. From systemic issues like low wages and limited accessibility to the economic and emotional toll on families, Melanie shares innovative solutions, including public-private partnerships, scalable childcare models, and the role of businesses in creating flexible, high-quality childcare options. With insights from her extensive nonprofit experience and personal stories as a mother, Melanie sheds light on why early education is essential for Tennessee’s families and economy. Tune in to explore actionable steps toward solving this pressing issue and the coalition’s efforts to bring together businesses, policymakers, and communities to make a lasting impact.
About Melanie Shinbaum
Melanie Shinbaum is a dynamic leader with 25 years of experience in the nonprofit and early education sectors. Currently she serves as the Executive Director of the Nashville Early Education Coalition (NEEC) Fund , a Community Foundation of Middle Tennessee initiative dedicated to transforming childcare by improving accessibility, affordability, and quality through resource alignment, provider development, and strategic policy advocacy.
A passionate community advocate, Melanie has served as Board President for Nashville’s NAEYC and contributed to many more influential committees. With a master’s in public administration from Cumberland University and a bachelor’s in nonprofit, her efforts consistently focus on creating equitable opportunities for underserved populations.
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Spencer 00:35
Melanie Shinbaum, welcome to signature required. You're the executive director of the Nashville early education coalition Fund, which may or may not reveal immediately what it is that you do, but we know that what you're focusing on is something that matters a whole lot to Tennesseans that matters to our company, our entrepreneurial story. So we're going to get into some stuff that we're excited to get to talk about today. So why don't you start us off? For those that don't know what the Nashville early education coalition fund does tell us, what you do?
Melanie Shinbaum 01:17
Thanks so much for having me. So we were formed about six months ago, so in the spring of 24 and really with the vision that we would unite business leaders, philanthropy, government, both local and state, with those in early education, knowing that so many people see the needs. The pandemic really kind of shone the light on the issues that parents face, employers face, and so really wanting to elevate a voice for that field, how people could support it. And also my passion really is around the education workforce. I've been honored to work alongside some amazing early educators, and they're just a great group of many, mostly women, some men, but really passionate about their love of young children and looking for ways to support them as an industry, because we all rely on them so much.
Spencer 02:21
There's a huge crisis amongst childcare and all things early education. Carli and I in our company, the majority of our executives are young women that have young kids, and it is a huge component of what we've had to navigate in our own business, and there's a lot of people that don't have that choice, they don't have the flexibility, the luxury of somebody that cares, and it's just like, hey, this is your problem. You figure it out. So can you just talk for a second about the focus? Is it focused on childcare? Is it focused on education? Those things can be, obviously, really distinct. So what is the direct initiative?
Melanie Shinbaum 03:04
That’s a great, great point. You know, I think first and foremost, we are doing everything through the lens of high quality early education. So we know that children's brains develop most between birth and three, and so that's a really important time, and we're setting young children up for their future success before they even start kindergarten. And so that's a big piece of anything we do would be. That's kind of the given. What I'll say, though, is we're really focused on the industry and the business of childcare, acknowledging that it's a business model that is a bit broken in terms of just the economics of it, and families pay the bulk of the cost, and yet it's not enough to pay living wages, largely to the early childhood education workforce. So the coalition is really focused on what is working in other communities, other states that we could bring to the Nashville area in Tennessee to make a difference in the industry.
Carli 04:10
So one of the things you mentioned was the contrast between the wages of people that work with zero to five year olds and those that work in K through 12 education. Can you talk a little bit about that.
Melanie Shinbaum 04:21
Yeah, absolutely. So, the early education field in Tennessee, as of 2022 earned an average of $10 just under $10.50 an hour, which is two and a half times less than their K through 12 peers. And we also know from that same data that early educators are six and a half times as likely to live in poverty and be on some sort of need for public assistance, and so that really speaks to we know no educators are paid based on the value they bring to our society, but I think it even paints a more kind of dire picture around the. Industry. And really, what I've seen is a lot of those educators, it's hard to stay in the field. You might love this birth through five age group and really have your passion, even your education built around it, and at some point, for your own family, you just aren't able to stay in that field. And so that's a particular problem to the industry, and one that I'm trying to bring additional awareness around.
Carli 05:27
I find that fascinating, because I've had four kids, and at one point we had three, four and under in our house, and the physicality and the intensity around that zero to five age range. Anyone that's lived through it knows that it is an intense experience, and so I'm just shocked at the difference between what they make and what those not that K through 12 isn't also very difficult, but I'm just shocked that that exists.
Melanie Shinbaum 05:58
I think it is shocking, and I think it also just speaks to how families are supporting the bulk of this industry and are paying, oftentimes more than they can afford to pay themselves, and yet it's still not enough. And that's really based on the necessary to your point of it's difficult. There are low adult educator to child ratios, as there should be so in Tennessee, for infants, the ratio is one educator to four infants, and even the thought for most parents of being left with four infants is rather daunting. So that's still a big job, and it also speaks to how the costs become so exorbitant and yet still not enough to pay a living wage.
Carli 06:45
And I'd talk a little bit about who is really reaping the difficulty of this, because I would say it disproportionately hurts moms who are traditionally the primary child care, or the de facto child care, not so in every household, and dads are really involved more than ever before. But we've seen in our own business. I even saw in my own life. I my parents divorce when I was really young. My mom was a director level at her company, and I would go to daycare when it opened, sometimes till when it closed. Sometimes I would go to the director of the daycares house before it opened, she would drop me off if she had a meeting or she had to travel out of state that day and get back in time to pick me up. And I think if she didn't have access to that childcare, where would we have been? And I see that with our employees and the women I know so this is so near and dear, because I think it disproportionately impacts women and moms.
Melanie Shinbaum 07:43
Yeah, I think you're right. I think a lot of the data that has had come out in the past several years, specifically during the pandemic, it showed for the first time in many years, women's wages across the country went backwards, which is obviously comparatively not the direction as a woman and a professional woman would want them to go and I think it's it speaks to the difficulty of the job. I think it's one that I've been interested since stepping into this role. I've heard from a number actually, was just emailing with a woman a couple weeks ago who said, I have nothing, nothing really to offer. I have nothing to ask of you, but I just want you to know that I'm here. She is a mother of four children who now I think the last, the youngest is still in child care, and just honestly said she always was so appreciative, yet felt so bad about the way that she saw the weight of the work on the workforce, and for her, as a working mother, professional, how important this, these educators were. So it's been not shocking, but I think you're right. It's something that I've been really excited to hear from. The number of people that really want to do something to support this industry, because it is so important. It's important for our whole economy, aside from just women, right? Because people that do not have access to jobs that allow flexibility, which many jobs don't, right? If you're a UPS driver, you can't take your child on your route with you if you're working in a restaurant, right? So there's so many pieces of our business that there is no option. And so for that piece of the workforce, their choices to not go to work. And I know oftentimes my the past 15 years, spent leading nonprofit childcare centers, which had a large proportion of our work, our families were in the workforce that didn't have choices on if they couldn't bring their child for whatever reason somewhere that day, they couldn't go to work. And oftentimes we would hear about folks that are going to lose their jobs, right? And so kids get sick, you can't obviously, they can't come when they're. Sick, but that, even just that, creates a huge barrier. And so when you think about someone that doesn't have access to affordable care that is available on even the good days of parenting, it's really hard, and really does prevent our workforce from showing up, which is what they want to do right families want to work and provide for their family, but if they don't have access to child care, it's not an option. And the piece that I'm especially passionate about is families having the choice, and if you economically don't have the choice, then you make really tough decisions, and that's where sometimes you hear of of tragedies, right? Where people are making tough choices, and it is a highly regulated industry, as it should be to keep children safe, but parents are kind of forced to make tough decisions and take their children to places that maybe isn't what they would choose if the economics or access weren't the reality that they are. Sure.
Spencer 11:01
Melanie, you've been at this for 12 months inside of this organization, but you speak as somebody that has much deeper experience in this. This is clearly personal for you. It is professional for you. It's community. Help us know a little bit more of your story and just what has led to this, because you clearly care about it and are ready to do something to try and fix this.
Melanie Shinbaum 11:22
Now I do. I joke that this is my soapbox, and so, yeah, you can cut me off at any time, but you know, I'll start with, I've always worked in my career with nonprofit organizations that either uniquely serve women and children, or certainly as a huge priority. And early on, I thought I was going to be a actually kindergarten teacher, and realized that was not quite the path that that I was being led to, but knew I still wanted to make a difference. And so I have always worked for nonprofit organizations that are really trying to create equitable opportunities for families, and the past 15 years, really have done that by working at have had the honor of leading two different nonprofit organizations here in Middle Tennessee that have many years of history, both Fanny battle day Home for Children in East Nashville, and Most recently, was the CEO at St Luke's community house in the nations in West Nashville, both of which child care is either the entire mission or a large portion of that. And I'll say really, combined with my interest in supporting women and children, I am also a mother, and so have two children who are now past the early childhood days, but I just know for me, though, that their caregivers and we were in a combination between both of my children of a home based provider who provided care for my daughter when she was 12 weeks old, and I went back to work in her home. Also later, both of our children ended up in a center based care that really all of those educators, both the in home as well as the center based, were really my support system too. And so I remember my kids remember it too, which makes me a little teary eyed when I've asked them if they remembered, I hope they would forget. But one day as a working mom rushing out of downtown Nashville trying to get there, my husband is very involved, but I would just as a mom, wanted to pick up my kids at school, and was late doing it, and traffic did not cooperate. And I remember I can still see my kids sitting there waiting because I was late. I had called told the owner that I would be late, and she was like, It's okay, Melanie, take a breath. By the time I walked in, I was in full blown hysterics, and I'll just never forget my kids sitting there. And so I think that's to your point earlier, of the weight of moms who are working. I believe in what I do, but I also love my family and so I've seen that same need and support that the early educators that I've had the benefit of working with offer to families, right? And so it just makes it really personal when you know personally how you've been impacted by these amazing individuals, and then also just the things that my kids learned, right? It's because of Miss Judy, it's because of Miss Laurie, right? And so, so I know for me, how important that was, and there's no decision you make as a parent, I think, especially when you're going back to work as a mom off maternity leave, you're leaving your most precious newborn who can't speak for themselves, and you're just putting a huge amount of trust in these individuals and so, so it's just really important, and I obviously, I'm really passionate about just highlighting that they're often kind of an unspoken group of heroes in my mind that I'm excited to have the honor now t champion.
Carli 15:01
There is something uniquely bonding to going to your child's provider. So my kids all went to a Mother's Day Out program. That's something we use really heavily, and to watch them enjoy your kid and love on your kid and know your kid, and then be like you're doing a good job. I mean, it can bring tears to your eyes, because how often do you feel like you are totally not doing a good job? In fact, they didn't see the car ride to school or home, and that's really special. And I see this burn in your heart, because not everyone has access to that or can afford a Mother's Day Out program, or the hours of a Mother's Day Out program are so truncated, it doesn't work for everyone. So talk to me about that, a little bit about how Tennessee is serving those moms that need different hours, more flexible hours, from their childcare providers because they don't have it at work.
Melanie Shinbaum 15:53
So there's really kind of two pieces to that. There's both the hours and the accessibility. So centers that are open longer than a school day, right? Or Mother's Day Out program are critical for those that work shift jobs or have don't have flexibility within their household to, you know, juggle and even still, remember, I mean, there's not a day that goes by that parents aren't waiting. We would open at 630 and parents would be in the parking lot waiting for the door to be unlocked because they had to get to work, right. Or oftentimes, that same family, it would be a different member in their extended family that would be picking up right, open closing at 530 or six, still end of the day, right? And so the hours are important, and then also the costs. And so in Tennessee, there are there's an a wonderful program called smart steps that the Department of Human Services offers, and that allows, it's specifically targeting children up through age five with working parents, and so it allows a higher income threshold than oftentimes. Parents would think that would be they think they wouldn't be eligible, and they are. So that's a program that is really important. The reality is that a lot of providers don't accept those certificates. So again, it becomes a further barrier, even if you're eligible for one of those certificates, you have to find a center that has access and accepts them.
Carli 17:28
So Wait, let me ask you about that, because I find that really interesting, this idea that there's two parts, like accessibility and what was the other word you used?
Melanie Shinbaum 17:38
Accessibility as well as the cost? Okay? Economics of it.
Carli 17:43
So if they are getting these vouchers, if the government is trying to help accommodate the cost issue, what is the barrier for these childcare centers, per se, to not take that certificate?
Melanie Shinbaum 17:56
You know, it's, I think it's demand depend, and I've heard of more and more providers that are starting to accept them for several reasons, and I'll say both from my time at Fanny battle and St Luke's. Those are both organizations that prioritize over 50% of their enrollment being specifically reserved for, if you will, low income families. And so that provides a business case to be able to to operate um towards better margins financially. But it also is great for kids and families. You know, the kids, the kids don't know the difference, right? They're just coming in. These are their friends. But oftentimes, one of the things I loved at Fannie battle, we had amazing family events. And so families that would really never intersect with each other from very different walks of life would find themselves seated together at a family dinner and event, and you know, it might start off a little quiet around the table, and then I'd walk past 20 minutes later, and they're just making all these connections. So there's great benefits. I think I read something the other day that early childhood is the single most segregated time of an individual's life, which makes sense when you think about it, because a lot of educational opportunities are based on on that access. And so if you are eligible for a Head Start program or Early Head Start program that is rightfully so limited to families of low income, but that means you're not able to really intersect with what the world is going to look like when you go into even elementary school, or, for sure, into the workforce. And then I think the piece about the cost it really, it limits what people can can do. And what I will say, though, on behalf of providers, is it goes back to the economics of the industry, is there is just not enough. There's just not enough dollars at play to be. Able to prioritize allowing some of these seats in your center. It really does require an organization that has that built into their mission.
Spencer 20:10
Maybe we can spend some time on the economics of the industry, because that's closest to my heart, language and what I know about the free market economy is supply and demand do find a way to equalize out. And what's so baffling about early childcare is that it doesn't seem to be equaling out. Now I can completely appreciate that part of the challenge is that families reach a point where the money that they're paying for childcare is more or closely approximate to what they're making in their job, and so they're priced out to say, All right, well, it doesn't even make sense for me to go to work. But even with that group of people already expressing that today, people spending like 20% or more of their household income for child care, there's still a shortage, and that's what's so confusing to me. So when I think about a childcare center, I don't think about anything there that is of an enormous cost, like they're not manufacturing something. The Real Estate isn't just, you know, acres and acres and acres. So I don't understand why the business isn't profitable, because we've even talked about some of the people providing the care are not being compensated very well. So it'd be one thing if there were neurosurgeons that it's like, well, Spencer, you got to pay them 400,000 but that's not the case either. So help me untangle the economics of this and what's going on, what am I missing?
Melanie Shinbaum 21:44
You know, it's one of the goals, actually, that the coalition we have is to really because I've asked, I've been asked this since I took stepped into this role by multiple folks like help me understand the business side of this. So hopefully we're going to have some really cool graphics to share in the coming months. But what I can say, as someone who juggled that budget at a variety of places is it really goes back to the ratios and the way the system is set up. So if you're selling any number of widgets, you know you you can back off of your your amount made, you can make adjustments, and there's just so little room to make adjustments in the cost. And it goes back to those ratios. What I'll also say is, and this is the part where he you don't like to think of this as a money maker, it feels it somehow starts to feel conflicting. But infants, because of that low ratio are really expensive. So there are a number of providers that won't even take infants because they simply can't make the math work.
Spencer 22:51
Time consumption, of saying we can deal with three year olds and we could maybe do two or three for what the burden of one infant would be.
Melanie Shinbaum 22:59
Exactly because the ratios are much higher. So you could have a room of four year olds and have 16 children to one adult now, again, still be a stressful job for that educator, yes, but, but so it's some of it is that. And then what happens is it is more easily accessible to fund care for a three and a four year old, but there are less providers that do the younger and so that's where oftentimes you hear, especially people trying to come back from attorney leave. And I heard someone say this literally last week, and it's one of the things that I've said is there were providers that knew my husband and I were expecting before our family knew, because there is this pressure to get on waiting lists. So some of it is the dependent on the age and the liability. There's a lot of risk associated, again, as there should be, right? You're caring for little, little humans. But really it also boils down to the fact that parents are paying the cost. So when you think about like higher education, the stat that oftentimes I've heard shared recently, which is valid again, as a mom of a soon to be freshman in college, parents are paying more, or at least similar, if not more, than a college Tennessee College public education, for early education, and yet the higher ed is supported through our government in a way that is larger than the small business of Child Care. And so to that point, that's another area that I think also speaks to the business is it is a it is an industry made up of small business, of entrepreneurs, really. And so the part of, part of some of the solutions that are that are working in other communities. How can we bring some scalability to their work, to the business model? So one of our local nonprofit providers, St Mary villa, their mission is to serve at least 50% of their children from low incomes. They recently have received a grant from the Department of Human Services to expand. It's called a hub grant. So the idea being that there would, there is some scalability to if they do this really well at these two centers, the state has invested in them, saying, work to scale, so that you're providing care at three additional locations. So we're adding access to seats, but we're not duplicating the back office, just like you would in business, in any other business, there is a scalability that is oftentimes not seen when you're talking about places that you know, average, probably 60 kids is a pretty large childcare center. Certainly 100 is.
Spencer 25:56
And Melanie, you're focused on Nashville. But is this story the same across whether you're in rural communities or other metro markets? Can you talk about any distinctions or similarities between markets?
Melanie Shinbaum 26:10
So glad you asked that. So in the past several weeks, I've actually been in several different convenings, both across the state of Tennessee as well as across the country, and so I'll speak first to the state Tennesseans for quality early education. TQ EE is an organization that does policy work around early education, and they convened several weeks ago educators from across the state, and I was speaking with someone from the far northeast of Tennessee and really have the same exact realities. Now, the economics look different there, but it is also why I'm particularly hopeful of so many things. When you're thinking about the difference between what's happening in urban areas of the state or very rural you know, it's hard to really find commonalities. And the reality is, is that there are a lot now, what the hourly pay technically is in Nashville for early education is higher than it is going to be in the Northeast. So is the cost of living. And so the reality is, though, that access is an issue across all wages is an issue across all the difference might be, if you're in a highly rural town or county, there might only be one or two providers in that in that community, whereas in Nashville there are, there are well over 100 but there's also a lot more people. So there's some there's differences in the scale, but the same issues exist. And I'll say to the point across the country, was last week with a group in Denver, Colorado, actually being hosted by our very own Vanderbilt University's Peabody College, prenatal to three, Dr Cynthia Osborne is on the our advisory council and is a researcher around policy That makes that's making a difference across the country in families, both prenatal through the ages of three, and there's some really neat things happening across the country, and it is also still an issue in every state.
Carli 28:12
So entrepreneurship is clearly very near and dear to Spence and I, and I believe that entrepreneurs can solve any problem like, truly, I think they are the ones that change the world, because you can be nimble and on the ground, and you can know your community and work on some of those variables. But if you had someone like, if I was coming to you and said, I am ready to start this center, tell me what to do next. Yeah, what are they running into that makes them peel off or not be successful early in the game?
Melanie Shinbaum 28:47
So, there are a number of initiatives and efforts that have been put in place in recent years to make it easier, and yet, there are still a large number of people that start the licensure process with the state to operate licensed care that never finish. Some of the barriers include codes and zoning, fire requirements. Oftentimes, I've worked with individuals who had spaces that they were interested in. My organizations partnering with and willing to say, hey, we have free space for you? Would you be interested in operating childcare out of the space? And I can, at least, I think around 10 that I'd visited, what oftentimes happens in those spaces is, if churches as a space that a lot of times people say, Oh, that'd be a great place. They sit empty a lot of the week. The reality is, is that if the building is older, building codes have changed. So even if the same building operated a licensed childcare center 15 years ago, the codes have changed such that today it would cost hundreds of 1000s of dollars to get that facility up to code.
Spencer 29:57
I know no some of those examples just from personal experience. We went through this where there's rules that you've got to be able to exit from a fire on the first level, and that you have to have a direct exit from that level. So if you're on the second story or third story or fourth story, you're out, and you can't use an elevator or anything else. And it's amazing, because some of those, you know, zoning pieces were put in place in a really different time of construction too, that, you know, we haven't had deaths related to a school fire in decades and decades, and clearly we don't want to, you know, go against that. But at the same time, construction materials are really different. Firewalls are really different inside not irrigation, but inside sprinkler heads. Yeah, you know, all of that is really different. So I think that's the type of practicality that I appreciate for what you bring is to point at stuff that says, okay, even if this isn't the solve for it, at least we are starting to understand our bogeys here is that all of this space that we could be using is ineligible, and maybe there's a legislative fix to that.
Melanie Shinbaum 31:12
Yeah, yeah. In fact, later this week, there will be a group of researchers presenting to a group of the legislators. In the last legislative session, there were two different bills passed, really to study and research barriers in early education. One of those studies is around the workforce. So even if we had all the physical space in the world, we don't have enough educators willing and able to work in this industry. And then the second is specifically exactly this, the codes and requirements. And so what I'm seeing again, across the state is a lot of interest in saying, okay, 30 years ago, you know, to your point, the quality or the building materials were different. And so if it's a newer building, isn't necessary to have the same type of rules. And obviously, we want children to be safe. We want firefighters to be safe if they're in there. But our world has changed also. One thing I've heard from a number of providers is the contrast between school safety after the tragedy with the covenant shooting in our community, a lot of places did a lot of work for really good reason to upgrade security. Some of the security improvements aren't able to be made because of fire code. And so those are two safety things that work in contrast with each other at times. And so what you see on the ground with early educators is trying to, how do you, how do you meet all the rules and also have the most safe environment that parents are most comfortable with as well? So that's an example of where I do see an interest in kind of looking at like, Where, where is it now? What is really going to be beneficial? The most beneficial today.
Carli 33:02
When you talk about a shortage, I feel like there is a shortage for workers in so many different spaces, and we've touched on wages as a huge part of that. But what else are you seeing? Why is there this gap in supply and demand for early education workers?
Melanie Shinbaum 33:17
Yeah, so it's not just wages. I think one I'll say, is and an area that I'm really passionate about, and was actually just speaking with someone this weekend who is like, tell us where to come. Educators want to be appreciated, that they are educators, right? They're not babysitters. They do an important job. And so elevating the field is one that we can all do just to thank this industry. Aside from that, there are the economics of a family, right? And if you have children and others you're caring for. Most childcare workers do not have access to health insurance, to retirement benefits. So those are issues beyond the salary that also come into play. Some of the other things that I'll say, that I've seen are just the just the difficulty in doing the work. So I've tried to think of another job that you would not be allowed to go use even the restroom when you want to, and I'm sure, I mean, I'm sure there's some somewhere, but in childcare, there's not enough extra staff for there to always be someone. So even just to go personally, take a moment you you can't without having someone come. And there has to be someone that can come, right? And oftentimes, what I've seen is they're not available, right? And so, because there's just not enough bodies, or it can't be afforded to have enough, you know, coverage later,
Melanie Shinbaum 34:53
So it's just a, it's a very again, it's good for children, right? Of course, you can't leave the room without someone to take your place. And. Watch children, and yet, also that's, it's a big job, and I'll say, especially during the pandemic, when so many jobs shifted to virtual, we had a number of educators that left the field. We were on the ground, right? We and so whenever I would hear people talk about, oh, and a meeting, you know, of different industries, what, what did you take up? Tell us an intro. What did you take up? You know, gardening? Did you do this? Because everybody found this extra time. And it's like, hey, in this industry there, there was no extra time, but, and so that flexibility has been difficult to even if wages were the same, which they're not. You've also got the added in flexibility of the job, because Child Care happens, because it is a person, right? They are in person for parents to do their job wherever they're doing it. They need that hands on. And so what that means is it's become an even harder job to recruit for as there has become so much flexibility.
Spencer 36:02
One of the things that you mentioned northeast Tennessee, I was with the Kingsport Chamber of Commerce not too long ago, and one of the largest employers in that part of the state, talked about that they are launching their own set of early education, yes, and I thought that was a really innovative approach that still taps into the entrepreneurial mindset to say, let's put this in the hands of businesses that understand how to manage a p and l already have some of the economies of scale that you talked about. And I think the benefits of tomorrow, rather than being health insurance, like when we go and we kind of are in the interview and say, Well, talk to me about your health insurance. I think it's going to start to be more talk to me about your childcare. And I think that's going to be a way to not only get more people to want to work for your organization. If Tennessee becomes a leader in that, Tennessee will also become the place that families want to move to move to already, even more than they are coming here. And so I think that's a great narrative that I hope you'll have the chance to show in a case study, or real data, to say, if you are an employer and you have more than 75 employees, and I'm just making up that number, but that could be a break point to say you could run a small daycare, and you could fill five or 10 seats. And here's what this will mean, it doesn't have to be a cost suck for you, like what health insurance is, and I think that would be really to the extent that I get to speak into your mission some that'd be super helpful.
Melanie Shinbaum 37:43
Well, and you're spot on, right? Because, and this is really where communities that are seeing advances, they are braiding funding, they are braiding kind of skin in the game, right? And so employers need their workforce, and so that is a huge opportunity I see in Tennessee. I've been meeting with some folks across the state, different chambers. Our Nashville chamber is highly involved in the coalition. And so one of the things you'll see coming out of our work in the new year is a series of kind of white papers on how can businesses get involved? Yeah. And so there are models in other communities all the way from opening a center in your building, right? You could do that. Tyson has been in the news quite a bit here in Tennessee for opening an entire building, yeah, but that might not be a fit for all employers. And so right now, there's a grant available through the Department of Human Services, with 10 with the state, for businesses to partner with nonprofit child care providers, and it could be to open a separate building. It also could be to partner with the center that's down the road from your headquarters or your location, and to work out an arrangement where it says, we want, we want you to reserve 20% of your slots for our employees, and we're going to pay this amount,
Spencer 39:06
And we're paying no matter what you don't have any worry about, like, if it's high or low, like, it's guaranteed revenue.
Melanie Shinbaum 39:12
It’s guaranteed their spots are there for your employees. And those are the types of creative models that I know. I just can't think of a single child care provider that wouldn't appreciate that partnership, also because of of your point, right about business leaders coming in when you see the the kind of unintended benefits of those partnerships, right? You end up with people that are it, professionals in your building, and they want to help, right? Because they love you, because you care for their children. So there's also really neat collaboration that can happen across sectors. And I had someone with corporate philanthropy ask me recently, what can the business community do, business philanthropy? And I said exactly the same thing, right? If you find. Partnerships. It will opportunities where we can align. It will create more opportunity, because people get into this because they love young children, not because they love, certainly not love or have ever even thought about a P and L, right? And so those are the pieces that when you can match up all those industries and the importance of it. I was speaking with one leader who said she's like, I know we need to work on our employee handbook, our policies, but that's an extra thing that's outside the day to day. So that's an area where, as we build more partnerships on the ground, I think a lot of those pieces that are right now the heavy lifts for early educators will be kind of some of those unintended benefits that that will lift everyone up.
Carli 40:47
Love what you're saying, because that is the heart of entrepreneurship. It's a lot of how we've built our businesses. Okay, who can we partner with? What are you good at? What am I good at? And let's swap let's help each other out, and both of us will be elevated in that space. And I think it's uniquely interesting. And as you're talking about the burden right on the worker, mixed with this opportunity for businesses, you're essentially trying to get someone to come in and love your kid like you love them. And you know what? That's really hard, because it's hard to love your own kids sometimes, when they're throwing a pit and making a hot mess, and you just cleaned it up, and you're expecting someone to do that for a paycheck, and that's not something you can just get for a paycheck. But that's why, when they truly loved your their your kid, you would do anything to help their business succeed, because you see the passion of that, and I think that the power of that just continuing to fuel one another is what we're missing, and it's not something that you can put in a business proposal, per se. It's lightning in a bottle that comes from community, yeah, which, as you've talked a lot about the pandemic and a lot of the things that our society is still struggling from, think we're all just really hungry for genuine community, and that's at the heart of this issue. Yes, yeah.
Spencer 42:02
Will you spend a second to talk about the liability side of this too? Because I think that's an important part that we can all appreciate the litigious world that we live in, and if and when something happens to an infant or a small child, that singular event would be enough that even if you have insurance coverage for it, you will have your coverage concluded at the end of it, which means your business is concluded as well. And when we talk about scaling, if you have 2050, 100 however, number of kids are coming through. Unfortunately, it is a law of probability that, you know, we live in the fall in society that we do. So can you just talk for a minute about liability and the state of play for where that exists and whether you can have any influence on that?
Melanie Shinbaum 42:55
I mean, I think it is coverage that you can purchase, because every provider does have it and and yet, it is also an area that I think for businesses is is scary, right? Because it feels outside of business cost. But I also think businesses, you know, absorb costs like that all the time. It is another area where I've seen more interest in businesses partnering with providers who have that and they have that coverage, right? And so I think it's an area that, as we get more creative about how we can collaborate, will will help. The reality is, it is also a reason why, oftentimes I you hear folks are not becoming licensed child care because it is a requirement, again, for good reason. You understand why. But you know, a home based provider, right, simply, could potentially not afford what it would cost to become insured, which would then allow for licensure, uh, Mother's Day Out program, right? Like there would be a lot of opportunities say, oh gosh, you already are operating. Let's extend your hours. But if you're are, if you're operating, and you're able to operate as licensed exempt, there are cost savings to being able to do that that are not scalable once you go beyond the threshold of a certain number of hours of care, and that's really what drives it, it's how many hours of care. And so the reality is, anything can happen in 60 seconds, right? But if you're open 11 or 12 hours a day, compared to five or six, statistically, the odds go up. So I think some of that is the creativity around how can we work together better? And it is something I'm seeing a large interest from businesses in look, we this is outside our wheelhouse. We don't we don't know how to do this, even in education, early ed. I've talked to a number of folks that serve children in. In their programs, or are a K through 12 educator, and even they are interested in contracting it out, have made quite a few introductions to early education space, acknowledging, look, this is your wheelhouse. Want to partner with you. And great example of that, as I mentioned earlier, the St Mary Villa grant that that they've received the first of their three expanded sites they've broken ground now will be at renewal house for women, and that is uniquely Pamela sessions. Their CEO, have been talking with her about this for a number of years. They, several years ago, built on their campus a new building which was going to quadruple the number of women that they could serve. And the number one concern by her staff, her case workers, where, how are we going to align them with child care? Because we don't have room for 20 we can't find child care for 25 women, and it's critical for them to work their program right for sobriety, for their for their future, to get a job, they have to have that child care. And so this is a really innovative partnership that St Mary Villa will be providing this care on the renewal house campus, and much like the model we mentioned with employers, a large percentage of those seats will be reserved for renewal house families, and then a large number will also be available to the community so that they're able to meet the needs of the surrounding area as well.
Carli 46:19
I'm curious, because as we've talked we've talked about the private sector, so nonprofit childcare, we've talked about how businesses can get creative and try to partner. We've talked maybe a little bit about church, church, space, government. My question is, it seems like everyone has skin in the game here. I'm a big believer that a lot of things are the responsibility of our government, but not everything. Is the government's responsibility. A lot of things is the responsibility of an employer or a company, but not everything. The church has a huge responsibility in community, but not everything. So everyone needs to step up here. No one needs to step up here. Who's Who needs to pick up the ball and run right now?
Melanie Shinbaum 47:03
Yeah, I'm so glad you asked that question. I really, I think kind of all of the above, right? And I will say, I don't think you mentioned parents. And I would say, if you did, I would exclude them, right? Parents are already doing more than they can juggle.
Melanie Shinbaum 47:25
That’s not to say that parents don't want to, right? I mean, back to the point I mentioned, if I've heard from parents who have said I don't, I don't think I have anything to offer other than my support, and tell me if there's a place I can show up and and I really do think that's why I'm so excited to be in this role now. So what oftentimes happens in early education? And this is what a lot of our our partners saw. We'll ask Melanie, can give you the answer, but she's also in the middle of the day to day crisis of the sprinkler burst, and now you're moving classrooms, because kids can't be in a wet room with sprinkler going. You know, these are real life things that happen. And so part of the industry, because it is so in person focused, didn't really have anybody or any group that were that were uniting behind them. People wanted to, but they didn't really know how to make those connections. And so a lot of what I've spent my time doing has been making introductions of like, okay, here's who you need to hear from. Here's who needs you know should come and speak to your group. Here's who, who you should talk to, just to find out. Like, is this even makes sense? I've met with housing folks, right? Who people who are interested in mixed income housing developments, and they want child care to be in the middle of these developments, but they meet with a couple of childcare directors who all have slightly different models to their business, which means they have different requirements. So some of it has even been me kind of translating like, okay, yes, because, like, I thought the ratio was x, well, it is and less. And so the coalition, our goal, really is, as we go into the new year, a lot of what you'll see out of our 2025 strategies are being that convener. So we want to bring all these sectors together. Our Advisory Council is built on these unique stakeholder groups, with the intention of building community across groups, and doing all of this with providers front and center right. And so part of actually where I'm going next is a lunch with a provider and their board chair and saying, How can we get y'all in front of the right people? And so I'm hopeful that there's going to be a lot more opportunity for conversation across the right folks as we go into the new year, because there definitely is a lot of interest.
Spencer 49:42
Well, Melanie, one of the things that we love to bookend each of our podcasts with is an opportunity to fill in the blank on three sentences that we have that really try to distill what we've talked about into a couple concrete things. Okay, so this would be just first word or first sentence that comes to your mind. Mind after hearing each of these All right, a thriving childcare system benefits the economy by blank.
Melanie Shinbaum 50:12
Allowing families to have the quality and choice for their family.
Spencer 50:17
Perfect. One misconception about early education is blank,
Melanie Shinbaum 50:27
That it's just babysitting, that they don't start learning until kindergarten. We know the brains are developing now, and this is a great opportunity to help them prepare for success.
Spencer 50:36
Well, I think that's really good. That really puts in perspective the charge that we have is that this is a now problem, and every moment of delay you can't get that back, especially in this season. Okay, quality childcare is important because blank,
Melanie Shinbaum 50:57
Because our babies are important,
Spencer 51:01
That’s good. You did a great job distilling all that. Well, I'll say this. You are doing a great job of saying I've experienced this problem in a lot of different respects, like we talked about earlier, you've experienced this personally, professionally, in community, amongst friends, Carli and I have experienced this entrepreneurially amongst our executive team, from top to bottom, and drivers in our trucks all are dealing with this challenge. And the number one thing that we hear is about the cost of how much of one person's paycheck is going into trying to solve for this problem, and it is literally removing people from our economy that come and say, I can't participate. I won't participate. It's not worth it, and that's a tragedy. And I think your passion for providing a solution comes through in your voice and how well you articulate this, but not just from a place of the emotion of it, which you do a great job of explaining, but also from a very practical standpoint to say, here are the statistics, and here are examples for how we solve this thing, and that is The type of thing that this podcast is all about, is to get behind organizations and give a megaphone to say this problem is big and hairy and audacious and all the things that most problems are. But uniquely with this problem, most people are throwing up their hands to say, I don't know how to fix it. And that's true for parents. It's true for employers, and I think your work is especially important. So thank you for taking some time to explain that to us, and we're excited to get behind and push and as you come out with those white papers, we really want to be a part of that. That is really a spot that we would like to highlight for you, great. Thank you for being here with us.
Melanie Shinbaum 53:03
Thank you so much. We appreciate it.
Spencer 53:11
So, Melanie Shin bomb the executive director of the Nashville early education coalition fund, it's fun to hear she's new in this venture, but yet she's really seasoned.
Carli 53:24
She's new in this venture because the venture is new. And it makes me really excited that this problem is finally getting its coalition. It's finally getting people like Melanie on board. It's finally getting this these resources and these connections together, because it's been a problem for a really long time. It's kind of a bummer, in my opinion, that this is new, like we have needed this for a long time, but the same time, there's light in my eyes. I'm excited that somebody is finally doing something about it.
Spencer 53:56
Think classically, entrepreneurship and entrepreneurial solutions seem tailor made to solve what is going on here. It's hard when there is a lack of demand for something. You can create a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and you will quickly find yourself to bankruptcy. Here, we know that the problem exists, and it will continue to exist as long as mankind continues to roam the Earth, we're going to have issues and need around childcare. This is purely a supply side problem, meaning we don't have the capacity that we need, and we need to understand why. Because on top of that, there's a lot of very compelling motivational reasons to provide that capacity. From purely an economic standpoint, there's profit to be made here. If you're looking at it from an employer standpoint, there is a obvious differentiator when every employer is trying to find another. Reason to come and work. Here's a reason, and you can choose my company rather than the other company, because we offer childcare. All of those are the types of wind in the sails that make me really convinced that this is going to be solved. And the challenge is it can't wait. And she talked about that so clearly in that every month, every year that passes by for these, especially infants and young kiddos, it's time. You don't get back and you can't make it up when they're older.
Carli 55:35
I think that's really important. And I also think when you look at the demographics of our state. We sit here and talk all the time about how many people are moving to Tennessee, and why do they want to be here, and why is it such a great entrepreneurial place to live and to start your business and to bring your family? Gosh, if we are going to be the leader in so many areas, it just begs that we need to be the leader in this issue, and there are so many really involved, amazing dads. Co parenting is a big deal, and so I'm not trying to leave anybody out, but it does disproportionately harm women and harm moms. And what we didn't even get into is, if you take five years, let's say you only have one kid, and you're leave the workforce until your child goes to kindergarten. The technology, the connections, the world of corporate America, even in small business, moves at such a rate that if you take five years off, you go back at such a cut in your pay, in your potential to try to build back up. Then once you leave the workforce, it's really hard to get back in, and a lot of women just don't ever even get the opportunity to do that. That's if you have one kid, if you have four like us. I mean, you're looking at 15 year span before a kid. All your kids are in kindergarten. And then the other demographic we didn't get into is the number, and we don't have data on it today, but the number of grandparents that are coming back out of retirement that are living completely different lives than they plan, because they have to fill in the gap to be the childcare. And it's not they don't love their grandkids. It's not that they don't want to do it, but there's this whole demographic of individuals that might work themselves, that might delay retirement because they love their jobs and they're being productive, that might go into the private sector or nonprofit sector that can't because they are providing childcare. It's just a systemic problem that hits every side of our economy.
Spencer 57:36
That's exactly right. It impacts families. It deprives our economy from workers that we really need, because there's no longer the incentive for them to work, because they've got to go and take care of the most important thing, which is your family. And who can blame them? A lot of the challenges that we deal with, there is just no solution immediately apparent, whereas here there is at least a plan, a pathway, and something that we know can work, and it's just about, can we get the right people's attention in the government? Can we get the right people's attention in business?
Carli 58:14
I agree. I think at our core, you know, leadership is solving problems period. It's solving problems for people, and as you say, the solution is right in front of us. That's what makes this so maddening. It's not like we have to invent some type of magical potion or robot or something. We don't have to be Elon Musk like trying to figure out how to get to Mars, right? This exists. It's doable. There's a way to make this quality immediately. And my heart for women is so many women want to stay home with their kids, and it's not an option, right? It wasn't an option for my mom for a really long time. I'm blessed that I had that option, and I've been home and I've been at work, but for some people, it's truly not an option, and the heart wrenching decision of this isn't a choice I would make, and then I have to pick between mediocre and really subpar for my precious child, when I don't want To leave them anyway is just more than we should expect.
