Will Norton on the TN Symposium for Online Safety
Will Norton, Head of School at St. Paul Christian Academy, joins Spencer and Carli to discuss the challenges of parenting in the digital age and the impact of social media on adolescents. Drawing from his experience as an educator and organizer of the Tennessee Symposium for Online Safety and Health, Will shares insights on fostering digital citizenship, setting guardrails for smartphone use, and promoting community-wide solutions. He also reflects on his military background and passion for equipping families to navigate the minefields of the digital landscape. Tune in for practical advice and hope in addressing one of today’s most pressing parenting challenges.
About Will Norton
Will Norton is the Head of School at St. Paul's Academy in Nashville, TN, where he is dedicated to advancing educational excellence and fostering a strong community spirit. Before joining St. Paul's, he served as the Dean of High School and a history teacher at Montgomery Bell Academy.
Will holds a degree in History from Wake Forest University, where he was an Army ROTC scholarship recipient. His time at Wake Forest coincided with the September 11 attacks, which led him to serve in the U.S. Army immediately after graduating in May 2003. He balanced significant life milestones during this time, including his marriage and military commissioning.
In addition to his role at St. Paul's, Will is actively involved in organizing the Tennessee Symposium for Online Health and Safety. He is committed to addressing the adolescent health crisis by promoting safer online practices and fostering open community discussions.
Will Norton's leadership is characterized by his commitment to creating a positive and impactful learning environment that prepares students for both academic and personal success.
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Spencer 00:35
Will Norton, welcome to signature required. Thank you for having me. Spencer, you are the head of school at St Paul Christian Academy in Nashville, Tennessee, where you focus on advancing educational excellence and fostering a strong community spirit. Before joining St Paul, you served as the dean of high school and taught history at Montgomery Bell Academy. In addition to your role at St Paul, you are actively organizing the Tennessee symposium for online safety and health, demonstrating your commitment to addressing the adolescent health crisis by promoting Safer Online practices and encouraging open community discussions. We share a lot in common. I am an alum of Saint Paul Christian Academy, where you are now the headmaster. I attended Montgomery Bell Academy, where you spent time as well.
Will Norton 01:31
So from my arrival there in 2008 through my departure in 2019 that was the time when smartphones became ever present, in addition to the launch of Instagram and Snapchat. And it was one of those moments where, you know, we were looking around just saying what is going on, and seeing our colleagues across the city and the nation and the International Boys School coalition that MBA is part of. It was clear that that this was a worldwide trend. And so what, what was, you know, really interesting for me was, you know, really being in that space and really giving, investing in the boys of those ages and really trying to help. I felt so handcuffed. And I felt like that, you know that you go to the school that you know you want to try to just fix the problem, but it just, I felt so helpless towards it. And you have some great stories and some great relationships that that transpire, that are encouraging, but on the whole, it was something that just felt so much wider. So when those statistics came out, it articulated exactly what I had seen, experienced, and now have a great passion for the years leading up to those years as a way of saying, you know, partnering with parents and equipping youth for that landscape is the most important task that we can do to make sure that that those minefields that are so significant of This generation are minimized and that those statistics are improved.
Carli 03:24
Yeah, I was talking with some fellow moms the other day, and we were lamenting the fact that we're the only generation that has truly parented this, because it kind of came about, right? And a lot of times you might go to an aunt or a parent or a mentor and say, How did you really lead your kids through the crisis of X or Y or Z? But they didn't parent us through social media. These are, this is really the first generation going through. So I can, I can really relate to that feeling of helplessness because we don't know where to go. And this research is coming out that's terrifying. And I know as parents ourselves, it's like, do you get them a phone? Do you not get them a phone? What are you saying to parents that are coming to you worried?
Will Norton 04:09
Ironically, you know, initially it was being tech savvy within a school was, you know, a strike? Oh, sure, you know, badge of honor that you wanted. And now there's, you know, quite this tipping point that has very much gone in the other direction. And, you know, I think what, what I would, I mean, the observation that I've had that's been supported by all sorts of mental health statistics, is that, you know, never before in history can you really do all the right things as parents and and really not have those right things control the results that you would want for your children, because the online world is such an equalizer for all students and personalities, and it really depends on what's the wiring social makeup of your child. You know, how social are they? What? What do they stumble onto, which is so much, you know, out of the parental control. So I would first just validate that kind of feeling of helplessness. And really the heart of the symposium is around saying, you know, if we don't, as a broader Tennessee community, come together and say we are moving forward towards the things that we know, which, for me, right now, it's real clear that it is very risky to give a smartphone before ninth grade. I have two boys who got smartphones before ninth grade, so I I say that with a lot of conviction. Throw in stone, yeah, towards towards that, in ways that my third grader now, you know, will will have a different experience. And I know that now, but I but, but that equation is very much a broader community equation, both because we don't want these statistics to continue and because parents need help. They need partners. They need school partners. They need church partners. They need broader partners. They need Metro, state, national legislation. You know that are it's just a multi faceted issue that things like the symposium are opportunities to say, Okay, what what overlap? What do we really agree upon, and how do we move forward in that and and what are the things we need to think more about.
Spencer 06:29
I think community as a solution is uniquely important as it relates to something like social media, because all of us are wired not to want to be excluded. And that's part of why social media is so damaging, is that it is, in a way, a mirage of inclusion. You're kind of included in somebody's life, but just in the parts of life that they want you to see dressed up in the way that a perfect moment of a perfect life. So when us as individuals and us as parents are thinking about excluding our kids from the world of social media, it kind of taps into the core fear of why social media has been so effective to begin with, and to try to take on that task alone is one that really does bring a lot of potentially shame, like Carli and I have felt that as we've been thinking through, gosh, what if our daughter is the only one without a phone, or what if we give them a phone really young, and they're the only one with a phone, and that balance is helped when it's done in community. Yeah? So maybe just take for a moment and introduce the symposium, and what the objective for the event is all about.
Will Norton 07:57
Really a nonprofit called Wired human was mentioned by the surgeon general this summer as a healthy advocate in regards to online health and safety has really been a kind of a forerunner of this issue, and they kind of have three facets, there's education, there's kind of advocacy for, you know, legislation, and there's kind of student leadership and kind of coalition that they form. And so we partnered with them as part of a youth on the Hill program that that was very much this bipartisan effort that you saw culminate with the kids Online Safety Act with the Senate this summer, and hopefully we'll eventually pass that the house. And what we saw with that was that there was just a lot of benefit of Act, of bringing about awareness to youth, having them really advocate for their own health, knowing that the landscape is daunting, and that if you can educate and equip them and do that together, then then it is something that really supports them during the challenges. And when I say challenges, you know, when you are, you know, talking about, you know, what the smartphone and social media does that those algorithms are hard for any adult to manage, much less an adolescent, and so the timing of when you give that, it's way overpowering their ability To navigate that in a healthy way, in ways that we all feel, that you know, within our own social media world that where we oftentimes, you know, have to measure that to make sure that we're being healthy ourselves, as you know 30 and 40 year olds and and so with that, you know the ability. Bring that group together to give some milestones. Okay, when is it? When are they? Are is it the right time to be able to handle this? How do you do it in a way to where you can kind of learn it before you become an adult? And that's a that's a hard thing because, and that's the hardest thing about parenting, is that because they you're setting them up for failure in some ways. And so what is that tension and when is that? Are great questions, but I think there are some really low lying things, such as, you know, not doing it in middle school and really waiting for high school and entering through the challenges of that then. So the so wired human is this great partner that that really tees up, that, you know, conversation in a way, that that, that I think is is very natural and and really helpful for the students. Because if you just talk to parents, that is just one part of the equation, and parenting This is such a challenge. It is very much this holistic equation, and that's what the symposium hopes to achieve.
Carli 11:11
Yeah, we were just at a dinner the other night talking about social media with parents, and one of the moms said it's so hard because, to your point, you don't want to send them to college with a loaded phone that they've never used before. You want to be able to parent when someone makes a nasty gram at you, or something like that. Or, you know, the dating dynamics that can happen in high school, it's like scarring to even talk like a nasty gram.
Spencer 11:38
I like that. Did you, did you patent that or trademark that?
Carli 11:45
But at the same time, it's so hard to think I want to let them do it at my house, because I want to parent it, because part of what you want to do as a parent is protect them from all, yeah, the horrible things. Which brings me to a quote that was in the English generation, yeah, right, that it says today, we over protect our children and adolescents in the real world, but under protect them in the virtual world. How do we I mean, maybe this is a question for all of us to noodle. How do we navigate the tension of that?
Will Norton 12:15
Yeah, and you will get a full spectrum of that. So I don't pretend to have the silver bullet, I'm glad to share kind of what I what I feel and what I see is that I think it's healthy to work that out to a degree when they are age appropriate within the home, because I've seen too many, you know, call them time bombs. Of you know, you get through to 18 and yes, they have gotten through there, but they don't have the resilience or the conviction to be able to step out on their own. And so then it just becomes a delayed problem that becomes a problem in college, where I see it much more risky, because they're not under your house. And to the Jonathan hype book, you know, the piece of you know over parenting. I think you know that giving a leash that's that is appropriate so that they learn how to navigate the digital world and have digital citizenship that's healthy is an important thing. And not being afraid to fail, you know, not being able to not being afraid to to say, Yeah, my child made a mistake and but they grew from it, and are stronger because of it. And that's what you want in parenting, you know, you don't want this perfect, you know, often, and that's I saw that wrestled with that challenge so much when I was working in the high school is that, you know, so much of the expectation becomes, you know, just for this kind of bump free journey, which oftentimes can be, you know, in reality, more about ourselves, you know, just like, oh, well, we raise this, you know, perfect child.
Carli 13:57
Yeah, every time they're hurting, you're hurting exactly, and so it's almost like you want bump free parenting more than you're worried about, yeah, free childhood and
Will Norton 14:06
the broader culture of us saying, You know what, life is hard, teen aging, the teenager years are hard that they you know, the reason that the prodigal son parable is so wonderful is that is that you, you know it expresses it, you know you. You you leave the home, you have to work it out for yourself. And when you leave and you become desperate, then you come back and you have the conviction to be, you know, the adults that we want our children to be, but those journeys are oftentimes imperfect. So I think that fear of failure is is significant with it, which is more of a parent question than what's healthiest for the kid, I think it's much more healthy to just be an authentic community where you're transparent over it. You're not afraid to make a mistake. You're not afraid to, you know, call it out when there's a challenge you know around you in ways that that that breed that and ultimately are for the betterment of of the adolescents that. Uh, that are going through it, and then that teaches them a message of, I can be myself. I can be authentic, you know, to that, and I don't have to have this mask to pretend like things, everything's going okay, when actually, internally, I'm a mess, that that is something that is very healthy for teenagers to have, and something that I'm hopeful for, and I'm doing it imperfectly with teenagers now myself.
Spencer 15:27
I think the parenting aspect of this is really important, because as a kid that is consuming social media, their brains, their frontal lobe, is not fully developed until they are 25 and for those that are not neuroscientists, all of us, your frontal lobe is the one responsible for logical decision making. So that's a pretty important aspect to making it through life. We don't let kids drink alcohol until 21 we don't let them vote till 18. We don't let them get a rental car till 25 so having a dependent pressure upon a kid to have to navigate social media, which we now know from the intro that social media is a cause of anxiety, not just a correlation or coincidence, but an actual cause. In the same way that alcohol causes you to get drunk, it has a meaningful impact upon your brain. So when you think about it in your unique chair as the head of a school and the head of a school that doesn't go up into high school, but your colleagues and peers are living in all those spaces. How do you feel like the world of leadership is viewing where social media consumption has or does not have a place inside of schools right now?
Will Norton 17:04
Yeah, no, I think what, what I'm seeing with, you know, social media and in kind of this recent schools reaction is that there has with the data from, you know, the Jonathan hype book and other sources and people just having really tough stories that schools are going to policies that are restricting that from the school world. And so really it becomes, probably more of a parenting question, I think, is over time, because I think over time, schools will generally, you know, move to solidarity of that, even in the high school, whereas, you know, five or six years ago, it was, it was very permissive in regards to, you know, allowing that.
Spencer 17:53
But what does that look like? Like a ban on phones, yeah, and on social.
Will Norton 17:56
There's punitive consequences if you have it out, but it's, it's restricted, that it's not, supposed to have it out at all during the day, and in doing so, you are giving the gift of eight hours or so a day where you are not on that so that even if you are in high school and you have a phone and you that short leash that that parents you know at some point probably should give it before they become a legal adult and can do it on their own, that that they are have a limited time for it to really affect them. And what you see, you know, to your biological point. You know, I always laugh. You know, if you if it's true, what the the therapists say that you always go back to your greatest place of trauma, then it's no surprise that I immediately went back and started working in a high school. You know, ninth grade, no matter which way you cut it, is just they're hard years. And when I was an MBA, 90% of my parent meetings were with ninth grade parents, because they're like, What is going on with my child? And it's like, wow, this is these are just hard years. You become, your body's changing. You become socially self conscious. You kind of go in the shell. You respond in so many different ways. And so many parents like, what is going on and, you know, wanting to fix it. And it's like, just, just hold on tight, you know? And then, sure enough, by junior year, I wouldn't call it maturity, but with there's a subtleness that just biologically comes and then when they get in their 20s, that logic of, you know, ability to do it is, ability to really think logically fully comes back in ways that that, You know, how do we establish the guardrails that they can go through what are hard years, no matter which way you you look at it with this smartphone generation, to where they can learn how to how to be healthy individuals and ultimately, have the conviction. And at the mid 20s, and so I think school leadership is is really figuring that out, but it's a lot of unknowns, and I feel like that in five or six years, we're going to have it, you know, in a much better place, both at the legislative level level and that the community level, but, but what you see, is kind of this response, and I think it's a good response that that creates just kind of safe havens to where you're not doing that. And then, and then it's more of a parenting question of, you know, is it something that's cut off at a certain hours that they can sleep? And sleep deprivation is a huge part of health and the you know, the issues just escalate, you know, depending on whether those healthy parameters are there, and understanding what are those healthy parameters, I think, is one of the goals of symposium, and one of the things that is a St Paul head of school that I want to equip parents with, so that they go into those years Knowing, having a road map for what they need.
Carli 21:04
I like the idea about guardrails. We were just talking to our 13 year old about her phone over the weekend, and this overwhelming temptation that she has a phone but she's not allowed to use any of the apps, right? And Spence and I have this experience that we hand her a phone because in middle school, all of a sudden, the schools don't communicate with parents anymore. They're telling your student, hey, you're getting picked up at this time or this change, or you need that. And I had no way to communicate with my kid to know even where she was on campus. So you hand her this phone thinking, Oh, I'm trying to keep her safe. Now I can find her. Now she can get to us. But I've literally handed her what feels like a ticking time bomb into her pocket, and so we were just talking to her about, hey, you're not allowed on this app or that app, and the overwhelming temptation she's going through looking at her friends, she's like, I don't have it, but can I sit next to my buddy while she's looking at it? Yeah, can we do that in study hall and trying to parent? It's just we had that exact conversation. It was really hard, because you feel for her and you also hate being the meanie, but half of good parenting is like being willing to be mean. And so we just have that experience.
Will Norton 22:17
Yeah, it's hard, and they you know, teenagers are very probably much smarter than adults in regards to this. And so you have any access to online, and you're going to have social media, you know that you can create and so, and that's where it's, you know, it's okay to fail. It's okay to you know, once as you discover those things, to have those conversations. And ultimately, you know, if there was one advice to parents, you know that I would have is just that connection. You know that that's the most important part, that that it can be messy things, there can be some hard times. It's part of growing up. It's part of parenting. But if you have that connection, and they have the feel that they can come to you and talk about it, and talk about the challenges of it, and you can sit with them in that that is the gold of these years, and even if there are some hard times and some hard years, because I think as parents, you know, we don't want to necessarily fix it all, but we can sit with them in it, connect with them, and that that ultimately is going to build the resilience that they want, that over time, when that brain comes fully around, they're saying, hey, you know, Mom connected with me in this, got me through that. I dabbled with it a little bit, and now I've got a lot of conviction behind why I don't want to do it. And then that's I feel like the success stories that we want.
Spencer 23:43
In your place of leadership, you would be able to speak a strong voice into a lot of different topics. So this symposium could be on school safety. It could be a symposium upon Tennessee having an 18% dropout rate for public school kids, it could be a symposium on what types of books should be in our library. I mean, there's no shortage of things that you could pull from the grab bag, of ways to make waves and policy change and education. So how does this connect into your story and your personal passion for the choice for this topic to be in the symposium.
Will Norton 24:28
Yeah, I think it's just majoring in the majors, you know, meaning that if I were to point to, you know, the one issue over that decade of working closely with the teenage years that this, you know, challenge would be the one. And I feel like that culturally, we're at such a tipping point. Because I think the data Jonathan height has really, you know, cultivated that in in great ways and that and that really what we've experienced with the smartphone and seeing. It wreak havoc on all lives, but in particular adolescent lives that that's something that we have to we can't just sit back and watch and just hope that it plays out in better ways that the statistics of you know, one in three girls and one in seven boys with a major mental health event. If you give the cell phone or smartphone at too early in age, we need to get to the place where, as a community, that it just feels way too risky to it's like, you know, driving without a seat belt on the interstate and, you know, 100 miles an hour. You know that it feels that type of level of riskiness as a parent, and so educating and kind of getting that word out, I don't think that there's a more important topic, and that's mostly, what is most what are the students of St Paul most importantly, because that's where I'm working. But also, you know, within Middle Tennessee, and certainly, I've got two teenage boys that you know, what are the issues that are going to be most dangerous to them? And I think that this, this topic, covers it.
Carli 26:17
I wonder I have the privilege of knowing a little bit about your background. I mean, ROTC week forest, you did two tours in Iraq. How does your military background, your kind of willingness to fight for what is right? How do you think that informs your thoughts on this today?
Will Norton 26:36
Yeah, no, I think the ROTC time and, you know, being, you know, the Iraq War kicked off of March of my of my senior year at Wake and the 911 towers fell my sophomore year. And so was really launched into a worldwide crisis. You know, in regards to the Operation Enduring Freedom, and Operation Iraqi Freedom. And so in doing, in stepping into that as an Army officer, it was kind of a, almost a master's in leadership. I mean, my, you know, I've showed up in Kuwait and had a little platoon and they said, Okay, you're gonna drive along the most dangerous stretch in the world to, you know, Saddam's hometown of Tikrit and and, and we'll see when you get there, and, and. So here we are, you know, leading this caravan of, you know, and just being like, what is, I'm 23 years old. So they literally just throw you into scenarios like that, where you you learn leadership. It was responsibility that was, was tremendous, and was a great, you know, honor to to serve. You know, with the transition from that, and I had many of fellow officers and soldiers that that were challenged. I think one of the greatest gifts in regards to the transition from those environments outside of the military into the civilian world is that oftentimes the kind of greater disparity of purpose between having this great sense of purpose, I mean, we it was such a great sense of mission within those, you know, conflicts of where I was in Tikrit and Ramadi. And with that, when you look to transition out, if there's a disparity between the purpose that you experience in the military versus what you go into in the civilian, meaning that you don't feel like that, there's a great sense of purpose, then I think that's where the space of the PTSD, you know, is wreaks havoc in individuals. I was so grateful. I was applying to Vanderbilt to get my masters because I loved history, wanted to teach history. Didn't really know much about education. I was thankfully offered a internship at MBA, where I was able to teach history, and it's almost like the mission continued in regards to the lives of teenagers in a way that I just fell in love with it. I didn't know anything about administration, but taught and got, got into administration and my army kind of organization, and in that part, you know, really resonated with the administrative world and into a calling that I was grateful for, and ultimately really Heather and I look back and think that that was probably one of the healthiest things that we we could have done to to transition, even though there were some some hard moments with that, but that ultimately, that was something that was a huge gift to me, and hopefully it was a mutual blessing to those that I worked with.
Spencer 29:51
Well and focusing on the symposium of saying, all right, this is our mission. This is what we're going to target, and we're going to make the biggest impact possible as an out. I can imagine hearing about yet another conversation on social media that is going to make me feel bad as a parent, or more anxious, or just like I've failed, because some people are already well down the road of okay, my kids just sitting in your spot. They already have a phone. They've had a phone for longer than what they were supposed to have a phone. So can you speak to someone that's listening, that is thinking about whether they should come or not leaning towards not because they're not really interested in a lecture of why they haven't done great as a parent on something according to whatever the culture is going to tell them, can you speak to what they might expect and what the feeling of the symposium will have in store for them?
Will Norton 30:49
Yeah, no, I would say that you know the the notion of just knowing that, that the humility of life can hit in different ways, and this is just recognizing that this is one of the greatest challenges that that this generation of youth will will face, and that everybody's got a really humble posture with that. You know, there's nobody that's got this silver bullet that is is coming through, and that's not even, I think, probably the right paradigm for how you want to view these ages. Because really, you know, what does it look like? The question I think the symposium will answer is, what does it look like to be in community, to know what health looks like, and for us to rally around that, which is as much of a community discussion as it is, you know, something that that we are going to necessarily receive some from the symposium. Now, there will be some key notes that are wonderful Jason frost, who's the founder of wire human and has become a real national leader in regards to to this movement, in regards to his relationship on Capitol Hill. And then also, what he has done with youth has been tremendous, and he's working in states across America to do the same. And then we have Catherine Price, who is was referred to us from Jonathan Hite, and is very much in that type of stream of what does it look like to navigate this in a healthy way? So I think that there's going to be some very practical takeaways and an equipping on the parent side, a messaging on the student side, and then community leaders are welcome as well, where we'll have breakout groups to think through. Okay, what's working? What he's seeing as we kind of navigate this together. So I hope that it'll be a humble posture of not having all the answers, but being in the room together, knowing that if we lock arms together and and really press into this, that hopefully it'll it'll be for the better of this generation, and I think that it'll accomplish that.
Carli 33:01
I just want to pull one thing out. Whenever I hear the word symposium, I think, okay, I need to get a sitter. They're going to be sitting for a really long time. But what I hear you saying is, kids, teens, youth that are dealing with this issue are encouraged to also come. It's not just an old people event.
Will Norton 33:21
Fifth through 12th grade are the ages and so schools are bringing whole grades, you know, in ways that that gets that messaging and wired human is actually developing a curriculum that really educates on the on the minefields of online world, so that there's kind of this equalizer. And so because things like extortion, and you can stumble into that so easily and think that you're communicating with a friend, and next thing you know, somebody's, you know, extorting you in ways that can be confusing as a adolescent and so, so really, you know, having, you know, the equipping of that, while also everybody, parents, students, community leaders, having the same messaging so that we can point back to the milestones of where we need To be and try to create that solidarity within each of our communities and for hopefully, what will be a healthier community.
Spencer 34:30
I also think, from a bipartisan legislative perspective too, there's a lot of people that can come that serve on school boards, that serve on boards of their school that can come and say, All right, rather than just guessing at what policy initiatives work, let's come together and see what we can do. Is it a total phone ban during the day? Is it a restricted access how should we think. About schools that are taking photos at every social event, every sport event, posting it to social media, and then turning around the other side and saying social media is not good. It makes a really tough balance, but it's what I appreciate about the bipartisan nature of this is that it doesn't and shouldn't be political. Senator Marsha Blackburn self professed one of the most right senators in our US Senate has paired up with a senator that has self professed the most left in the Senate, and we're talking the United States Senate to come together on the Child Online Safety Act, and that's been a three and a half year mission for the Senate to get it passed. And it's not signed into law yet, but we could be getting close to that in hopefully the next 12 months, and I think Tennessee, as a leader, could also say we have the same problem here in Tennessee that all the rest of the states do. But what an opportunity for us to be a leader in saying, Here are answers, and I think that is something that should broaden this out to you don't have to have kids to show up at this event and say, I care about my community because we know how detrimental social media is becoming, and it's not going to get any better. They're just figuring out better algorithms to keep you on there for longer. And you know, I can't tell you a number of times I pull up my phone and you know that accursed little red bubble with the notifications? Yeah, that is a drug. Yeah, it is a drug. I open it up and I'll clear my notifications. And not 15 seconds later, there's another notification on there.
Carli 36:54
I know you're not above the scroll, yeah, no, yeah, you're not, not alone. None of us are.
Will Norton 36:59
Yeah, no, I think it'll be a really unique opportunity for community leaders to discuss and hopefully have some meaningful takeaways for parents to be equipped and be in the room of how do you walk in connection with this landscape and have the appropriate guardrails and boundaries within what you allow when for your for your teen or middle schooler, and and then for the students you know, it'll it'll be an opportunity for them to hear from peers, from people who have have been there and learned the hard way and and an equipping for them that that hopefully will strengthen their conviction towards greater health.
Spencer 37:45
Well, do you ever hear because the inner debater in me loves to look at both sides of every argument and say an excellent debater is marked by their ability to articulate both positions, and you as the listener can't particularly tell which position they personally prefer, and so I sit with this social media issue, knowing that I personally believe in the very negative and damaging effects of it, but I wonder what the other argument is, And the smallest bit that I know, that I hear from people is saying that social media is the way that I stay connected to people that I don't see anymore. Maybe they've moved on the other side of the country. Maybe they have certain limitations through their social anxiety that allow them to have some bit of connection to the outside world. And as I try to structure the argument from the other side of saying, let's not be too rash here. Let's not be too harsh. Are there any other ones that you hear or that that you're particularly sympathetic to to say, here's why we shouldn't go and just shut these companies down that are doing social media, because I think that's on the table for a certain percentage of the US population that would say we were better before Facebook, before Instagram, and before Tiktok and infinite scrolls that are there?
Will Norton 39:20
Yeah, no, you know, of course, it taps into that need to connect. But I think the limitations of it is that that what humans really need is authentic in person, connection, and so, like anything in moderation, it's fine, and if you are able to, you know, manage that in a healthy way, then it's, it's, it's not an issue. And if, if your social media connection is one that leads to personal connection, that is what human beings really need, then, then that's not a, not a bad thing. Thing. And so I think that that it will, I don't suspect that social media will go away. I mean, I think my hope for it is that digital citizenship, which was randomly legislated at 13 in 1997 before anything was really known about the landscape of what we would be eventually entering that that has to get more because that is way too young and and so, you know. And then beyond that, you know, I think like anything, whether it be drugs or alcohol, you know, that, or rental cars. Yeah, exactly. Probably, alcohol is a better, better, you know, but, but, you know, if after 21 you don't do it in moderation, then you're gonna get in trouble. And so, so I don't, you know, foresee that industry going away in the same way that social media, but, you know. And then, how do you manage that? You know? How do you manage digital citizenship? Because then you're you're tracking, you know, if you are signing in and and you have your birth date on there, and then they're tracking your every footprint. Then wherever you go can be used in ways that are challenging. So it is a challenging landscape to be able to regulate in a healthy way so that you can have a kind of baseline of age. And then you know, beyond that, you know, what does health look like? I think it's, you know, a lot of awareness, education, you know, community, and ultimately, us being able to to to give what human beings really need, which is, you know, authentic one on one connection, which I think of the things that do build health, you know, because I think that the we're finding the social media world is pretty limited on that really beneficial, you know, kind of piece of what's constructive for humans.
Carli 42:02
One thing I really am excited about for the symposium, something that's, I think, Spence and I have really loved in parenting and in marriage in general, is we always talk about trying to have a common language. So anytime one of US consumes content that we find super helpful, it could be about any of those topics, we always try to get the other person to read it or watch it, so that we have the same language or buzz word with one another when we're dealing even just talking to each other. And so I feel like that's what you're talking about. That's totally missing in this space as parents, is we do not have a common language, so maybe my kid has a phone, but they don't have social media. Or maybe I'm worried about this, and not that all of a sudden, the goal here is to get all of the buzz terms in one place. I mean, in full disclosure, for my mental health, I got off social media in a meaningful way about two and a half years ago, and that's a lifetime in technology. So now I feel like an ignoramus. I don't know what any of these things are or how to work them, and Spence could tell you, I can't even remember my password. I can't even get in. I'm locked out blasted two factor authentication. So I'm looking forward to having common language with my parent group.
Will Norton 43:22
I think to just validate that step. I mean, I think what is, what, oftentimes is unhealthy. There's a close with a ministry called J Ranch, where there was an adage where, you know, it's caught, not taught, you know, it's kind of the notion of do as I say, not as I do, but the ways that teenagers they they're not. They're going to forget what you say. They're going to remember the way that you made them feel, and they are going to be watching every bit of what you do. So I would say that what you're modeling for your children is one of health, that even though you may be disconnected, they're watching that, and that ultimately they may have some fits and Spats of, you know, exploration, but that eventually they'll come back around to that in ways that will be even more healthy. And I think that's the what's most convicting as parents, is that from work worlds and the and even just our own impulses in regards to social media, that oftentimes those can be in unhealthy spots, and then that is what this next generation are seeing and so, so that's, that's a key factor that I think is part of that health equation, that that's convicting.
Spencer 44:43
And I think I'm most interested in the practical, legislative or real changes that we can make, that some of them are going to be experimental, like one of the things you know, whether we're supposed to call it Twitter or x now they. Have a limitation per day on how many times you can refresh your scroll at the top. Now I think it's at 1000 which, you know they're setting that bar way out there, but I think it is the first step to saying if you are scrolling your Twitter feed more than 1000 times a day, yeah, that is demonstrably unhealthy, yeah. And that may be where we have to start to where it says, if you're on Facebook 10 hours a day, yeah, that's demonstrably unhealthy, yeah. And, and if it starts just, where can we agree? Yeah. And I think that is what I have the greatest hope for out of the symposium to say, where can we agree? And let's go from there, because there is a place, if the US Senate can agree on anything, then we can agree that it's something important. Well, I really appreciate your leadership on this topic and choosing this one amongst a lot of different ones. I think Carli said it really well earlier that this is the very first time that we have had to parent this, and that anyone has had to parent this. We've been having to parent alcohol for generations, 1000s of years. We've had to parent cigarettes for a handful of generations now, and all sorts of stuff. But this really is one that carries with it unique qualities of shame and uncertainty that ties into that everyone wanting to be involved in community and to have the right balance and to teach in that capacity, is something that we're excited to support your mission in that and bring this to a really large and robust audience that that needs it, because there's a generational impact that is going to be made through the decisions that are being legislated right now. So thank you.
Will Norton 47:00
Really grateful for that advocacy and partnership and support and look forward to a great event.
