Adam Comer on Addition Recovery in Tennessee
Adam Comer, CEO of S2L Recovery and Executive Producer of The Forgotten Pandemic documentary, joins Spencer and Carli to discuss his journey from addiction to redemption. Adam shares his powerful testimony, highlighting the transformative power of faith-based recovery and the importance of community in overcoming addiction. He delves into the challenges of addressing the opioid crisis, S2L's unique approach to breaking the cycle of addiction, and the life-changing impact on families and individuals. Tune in to hear about the hope and dignity found in recovery, the vision for S2L’s expansion, and how Adam’s personal story continues to inspire Tennesseans and beyond.
About Adam Comer
Adam Comer is the pastor and CEO of Spring to Life Recovery (S2L Recovery), a faith based, non-12-step program for men ages 18 to 65. The program, which combines biblical principles with innovative counseling and discipleship has established itself as one of the most successful rehabilitation programs in the nation.
Drawing on personal experience and his studies in religion, ministry leadership, and Christian counseling, Adam selflessly leads others to freedom in Christ through learning life skills and personal growth. Leveraging From the Ground Up, a co-hosted podcast, and The Forgotten Pandemic, a documentary in which he shares his story and is the executive producer, Adam continues to inspire others with the message that they are wonderfully made and worthy of redemption.
Join S2L for an unforgettable evening and inspiring night of hope February 13, 2025 for their Freedom Gala—a black tie event of live music, gourmet dining and silent auction supporting S2L recovery. Learn more using the Freedom Gala link below.
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Spencer 00:35
Pastor Adam comer, you are the CEO of spring to life recovery, a Christ centered addiction recovery program here in Tennessee. You're also an executive producer of The Forgotten pandemic documentary. Welcome to signature required.
Adam Comer 00:59
Thank you so much for having me appreciate it.
Spencer 01:01
You have a really incredible story that has been known to make people cry. And it's not just because of the quality, production value that you have. You have a testimony that I think a lot of people need to hear about. People not just in Tennessee but across the country, are dealing with addiction at rates that we've never seen before in the history of our nation, and you have lived the front and center of it. So would love to just give you the mic for a second to talk a little bit about that.
Adam Comer 01:34
Well, you did say I was a pastor, so be careful what you what you give. You know, we might go a few hours here, but yeah, so, so it's kind of had the American Dream growing up, played sports, have two great parents, no no trauma, no drama. Really, that a lot of people that happens to a lot of people that lead them to addiction and got injured, injured my back, and fell off of a roof and was introduced to prescription pain medication. And, I mean, I'm kind of giving you the fly by, you know, fast version, but one, the first time I tried one of those, it was everything that I'd been missing or thought that I'd been missing, I was, I was filling this void, and from there, it just became a chase. It got worse and worse. And I was never prescribed by a doctor. I'd always gotten it from the streets. And so it was very it was very expensive, man. It was just a life of chaos.
Spencer 02:26
Was even that the first time prescribed by a doctor? Oh, interesting.
Adam Comer 02:30
I was in, I was in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, so it was kind of just, Hey, let's go, gotta get back to work kind of thing.
Spencer 02:37
Oh, wow. So you had the injury. Did you go see a doctor? Okay?
Adam Comer 02:42
No, not for a long time. And then it was, it was, it was nothing that required surgery or anything like that. It was more of a chiropractor or maybe a slip disc or something like that.
Spencer 02:53
It's so true and consistent with the stories of addiction. Nobody wakes up one day and says, you know, today's a great day to get a life changing addiction to opioids. And it's done oftentimes from procedures, and it's frequently prescribed where it's like, you have, you know, some type of dental procedure, or you'll have some type of outpatient procedure, and you get prescribed it, and then all of a sudden, it's just totally different.
Adam Comer 03:17
So, so serving, where I serve, I've been in this space, residential addiction recovery over a decade, and that's the story. I mean, there is no discrimination from addiction. We've had professional athletes, doctors, judges, pastors, you know. And I think historically, there's a stigma to where it's, you know, it's, it's those people that are struggling with addiction, you know, you see them under the bridge, and it's, it's, no, that's, not the case. That's not the case.
Carli 03:44
I think it's interesting, because addiction is in everyone's forefront of their mind these days, right? We talk about addiction and mental health, that seems to be where it goes back and forth, and there's all of this focus on fentanyl. But from your story, what I'm hearing is people don't often start there. They're starting with trying to fill a need, whether it be emotional, spiritual or, Hey, friend, I just got to get back to work and provide for my family. I don't have time to be hurt today. And then it just goes a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more. Is that what you're seeing?
Adam Comer 04:16
I'm a firm believer that this is a addiction is going to be a side effect, like you said. So I'm wanting to numb some sort of pain, whether it be emotional, physical or whatever it may be. And by God's grace, when I struggled with addiction, fentanyl was not really around, and today it's everywhere. In fact, fentanyl is the number one cause of death for people ages 18 to 45 in this country, not just in the drug addiction thing, the number one cause of death over heart attack, car crashes. And so it's a problem. And it's in everything. And so it's laced. There's reports of it being in marijuana reports, obviously in heroin, but cocaine, cutting it in cocaine. And so people are dying. It's a. Big issue when you say the number one cause of death for anything, you know, I think that's why people are starting to talk about it. And like you said, it is on the forefront of people's minds.
Spencer 05:08
And just definitionally, most everybody has heard of fentanyl. But its actual function, as I understand it, is fentanyl makes whatever it goes into more concentrated. Is that, is that the way to properly understand it?
Adam Comer 05:22
I think fentanyl, if you've ever had surgery, like my daughter broke her arm last year, and they were talking about and they said, fentanyl is always calm. And I was like, whoa, whoa, what? And so there's, there's medical grade. I'm going to answer your question the best I can. But, but I think that what's happening is a lot of illegal fentanyl from overseas is coming in, so much so that, I think last year, 18 state attorney generals signed a petition to President Biden to declare fentanyl a weapon of mass destruction. Wow. Yeah. WMD, and if you think back of the George Bush Jr, George W Bush days. That means something, you know, we went to war over WMDs and so. So it's a big problem as far as chemically, what it's doing, absorbing, I think cutting it with fentanyl, if you're asking more of a kind of the drug related back to your question, I think it would be very cheap, a cheap way of making a drug seem stronger, yeah, but it's so deadly, and there's no regulation if it's not in a lab, at a doctor, at a, you know, a hospital grade stuff, it's, it's, you're playing roulette, Russian roulette.
Spencer 06:30
I think that's a really good educational point, because, like you said, it's the number one killer, and we have some understanding of what that means about heart disease. We have some understanding of what it can mean about stroke on just a basic level, but I think trying to better understand what this is, where it comes from, is everything that I've heard on fentanyl is that it is a way to concentrate a drug and do so really, really cheaply.
Adam Comer 07:01
So you see the signs up on the billboards as you're driving by, they have a dime and then a little dot next to the dime. It's like, this much fentanyl is enough to kill X number of people. So it's pretty devastating.
Carli 07:14
So in your story, you had this accident you started using Did you just wake up one day and be like, Eureka, this is bad for me. What is your story towards? Oh, good recovery.
Adam Comer 07:29
I think it's probably similar to most. You lose everything, and devastation comes the people that you love the most is who gets hurt the most and who you distance yourself from. Legal trouble comes in and my story, I came back and still thought I had it under control, or at least hiding it, or thought I was hiding it. Kind of reconnected with my high school sweetheart. She's a pastor's kid, a PK, and just was really oblivious to the evils of the world. And so she believed everything I said, and was hiding it from her. But like I said, you know, it got more expensive, more expensive. My paycheck was gone before I got it. You know, buying this, ponding things, cash advances, and just devastation. The whole I was was decorating the pit. The pit became my home. I was hanging wallpaper on it, and I didn't belong there, but just devastation. Ended up losing everything, like I said, you know, family members couldn't trust me. My wife separated from me, and so it was, it was a deep, dark, by God's grace, that I'm, I'm still breathing, you know, because I've, I've, I've done too many funerals for people that weren't crazier than me. They didn't do anything more dangerous than I did, and they're no longer with us. So, so, yeah, it got it got bad quick. It got bad quick.
Carli 08:54
I think there's a misconception that if you can just get someone in rehab, if you can just get them to help. It's all going to be fixed. Like, let's send them to the professionals. It'll be fine. And so you did seek recovery for the first time differently than you did sure for your last time.
Adam Comer 09:15
I don't know how much trouble you want me to get you into on the podcast, but there, to me, there is a radical difference between recovery modalities. S2L as you mentioned that I was the chief executive officer. We're a Christ centered modality. And the main difference, if someone you know might not know a lot about recovery, the main difference would be, we don't believe that this is something that you are identified as, and that you'll have to be the rest of your life. We believe that the Word of God is true, and it says that you're a new creation in Christ and our identities in him to whereas the first attempt at recovery is, hey, anytime I wanted to talk, hey, I'm Adam. I'm an addict. And then, you know, so I am identifying as. That, and then I'm told that I'll always be that. And I think even, you know, well again, I'll try not to get you into much trouble. But psychology 101, says that that's that's brain broke. You know, if a little girl calls herself ugly or she's told she's ugly her whole life, she's going to grow up thinking those things. And so that's the main difference. A lot of it, too has to do like you said, Hey, let's let the professionals deal with that. One of the main missions that we feel God's called us to. And you met Pastor Carl in the lobby out there is really educating the church, the capital C church, and saying, hey, you know, addiction is not a surprise to God. Historically, if you look back at church history, we're always the one that's marched into the storm, not retreating, not passing it off to the those over there. Now it's not that we're not professional. We have doctor and nurses and therapists, licensed therapists on staff with us, but we all have a biblical worldview, and we see people like they have value, intrinsic value. They're made in the imago day, the image of God. And so we, we believe that if that's the baseline that that they have value, that we're going to treat them well, but we're not going to tell them that they're always going to be this. They're not doomed to this thing. They're not, I don't, don't identify yourself as that. That's not who you are. That's what you did. And I think one of the main differences there is for me when I came because I actually came through West to well as well. So, so over 12 years ago, I came through the very program that God's called me to lead now, and I did every job, from cleaning toilets to mopping to cooking to driving vans to teaching. And that's a whole other story for another podcast. Because I was just like, really, I'm from East Tennessee, and I'm glad you had me here cleaning toilets for $50 a week. I mean, I feel called here, but that surely that's not what's best for my family. And so didn't know that. Didn't know them, but he was preparing me for this. But the difference being, when I first came to s 2l and they told me, Don't call yourself, that there was hope. And before those other places there just, there wasn't hope. It felt icky, honestly, like, like hearing calling myself that, knowing that this is just a life of remission at best, it felt hopeless and icky. And then the moment they're like, Hey, don't, don't. You don't call yourself that here, you don't. You don't have to. You know that's not who you are. It's what you did. A little bit of hope started, and Hope's a very powerful thing.
Spencer 12:23
Do you feel like those other groups do, that they have to have a reason in the mindset for that. What did you experience of the strategic value of saying, all right, you are an addict. You will always be an addict. This is part of your story, and going from there?
Adam Comer 12:44
That's a good question. I've been asked that before, but I think it's a to answer. It could be longer, a longer answer, but I guess you could, you could do some studies, and you can, you could talk about the brain chemistry, but that's, that's even more talking about the disease model, not the identify model. And honestly, I think there might be beginning to be a shift, even in the secular world about this. But if I had a guess, it probably started back with, you know, the AA initial thing, and it was probably a focus on, hey, you have to admit that you have a problem, and you have to they really focused on, if you can't admit it, then you're never going to get help. And I think that rolled into over time, whether whatever that thing was, Oh, you have to identify as it, and it's like, I'll never forget the chaos and pain and struggle. I don't have to, I don't have to continue to remind myself of that to know that that's something I don't want to turn back to. So I guess that would be the short answer,
Spencer 13:40
I think that's a classically paradigm breaking thing that you're picking out already and saying you found a better way, and the Church Christ has shown us a better way to do it. But translating that into what is practical of saying we're going to have you identify as someone that has been redeemed, someone that has a fresh start.
Adam Comer 14:09
The latest survey that we've done, and we pulled 100 alumni who've been out of our program for at least a year, and we also contacted their family, and it was done by a social worker. So so it was, I guess they're more equipped to kind of, you know, do these kind of surveys. And there's questions like, you know, obviously, are you still walking in freedom and sober? Are you attending church? And then, you know, some interesting questions that we wanted to gain some of that data. And so out of 100 people, 60 of them are still walking in freedom at least a year, was a category they couldn't have, you know, any longer or any less than that. And the majority of those 60, if not all, were regular attenders of some sort of community, church fellowship, had strong fellowship in their life. The best research I can do, and it's really hard to. Find it. I did a lot of a lot of research for the award winning documentary, The Forgotten pandemic. Shameless plug, but it's the info on the internet can come and go. But this was, this was a study done by an Ivy League school, and it showed that it was about 12% success rate for secular module, AA and a that kind of thing. So, I mean, essentially Christ centered, and it wasn't about us. This was more like the study. It was actually about faith based in general. But if you compare our stats to the national average, you know, we're five times more successful. And I think you hit the nail on the head of why? Because you're giving people dignity, you're giving people hope. You're telling them the truth of God's word and that you're telling them who he says that they are and who he says that he is.
Spencer 15:48
Your Pastor Adam, which is an important part to this so did the pastor component come before this journey? And that was part of your life. And then afterwards? Tell us that component too.
Adam Comer 16:00
No, no, no, no, I told my wife that we would be millionaires before I was 30, and so there was no Pastor anything, you know, thinking about any of that. Plus I was just, I was never, yeah, I mean, I grew up going to church and things like that, but I never thought ministry was my thing, and I knew I had a set of skills that God had gifted me with. And I just didn't think pastor was think pastor was it was really just submitting to the call. And I'll, kind of, I'll try to fly through this. But as I was ending my time at us to well, they asked me to intern, I was like, you know, I do feel helping people would be fine. So hey, I know I got to go back to East Tennessee, but I'll commit to this internship and through that, you know, actually helping people, even though it would maybe it was just like driving a van and a guy just emptying his soul to you and, you know, everything, and then not even saying anything smart, just being in there to listen and how important that was, God began to work on my heart to where, at the end of the internship, they offered me a full time position, like I said earlier, making $50 a week, which wasn't enough to cover gas, and I gave him the church answer, answers like, hey, you know, because at this point my wife and I, we restored our relationship, and it was long distance. We were talking on the phone. She would come and visit, but I said, Hey, let me pray about it. We'll call my wife and we'll pray about it. Give us three days. And on the second day of praying, my wife's boss came to her in East Tennessee and offered her a potential promotion, but we'd have to move to Middle Tennessee to take it. And so I was like, All right, God, we were kind of praying about it, but we weren't really, you know, there's we'd be careful what you pray for, because my family at the time, her family at the time, everything we knew, was in East Tennessee. We knew nobody here outside of, you know, through the program and stuff like that. And so you're right. Be careful what you pray for. And so we took that as a pretty clear sign, you know, I'm hard headed, but that's, you know, that's like hitting me over the head, and I'd be, I'd be very ignorant, to ignore that at least. So we investigated it. Sure enough, my wife moved here and just began in ministry full time. And so that progressed to, you know, feeling the call to pastor, and being told by people around me that they see that call. And it's pretty cool. I'm, I love my church, and it is a denomination, but s 2l is a non-denomination. We don't, we don't, we're not tied to any specific and some, some programs are, you know, they're tied and they're funded through a denomination, a national denomination. But it was pretty cool. At my ordination service, I believe there was eight different pastors from eight different denominations that signed the back of my ordination certificate. And I was like, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. So that's kind of the story.
Carli 18:33
I think I'd be remiss if we didn't pause for a second, because we can't assume that everyone listening here has a faith journey like yours or ours, there's a lot of people I love dearly, family, close friends, that respect that Spence and I have faith and believe in Jesus, but it's just not part of their lives. So we're talking about how you became a pastor and how God met you in the middle of this addiction. But what about the people out there that are feeling super hopeless, they've only been handed traditional addiction, I'm not saying all traditional methods. There are lots of people that say that that could work for them, but they've only had that, and maybe they haven't had success, or it feels super daunting, but they're listening to this podcast saying, I don't know who this Jesus is. I don't know what this identity is. I don't know that this is for me, but I am at the end of my rope with this person I love, or personally, what do you say to them?
Adam Comer 19:27
That's a great question, and I didn't like I said I went to church, but I would not consider myself someone of faith at the point of of going through my addiction, very self-centered, did a lot of evil things to the people that love me the most. And so I wouldn't consider myself, Oh, I've always had this faith. What would I say to those and honestly, a lot of people who have gone the secular path, it's drawn them to faith. It's there's a lot of stories like that, but I would say, for me, personally, I had no one. Tension of looking for God, finding God. In fact, I just, I just Googled this because the other way didn't work for me, and it felt wrong to me, but I remember very clearly. And so I guess if someone's watching or listening or has a family member that maybe doesn't know, the Lord, gosh, I would, I would. I'm trying to remember the exact day, because it was a it was a day that I will remember forever. God, God crushed me under the weight of my own sin. And it was that's, that's very strong language, like crushed me like I, I finally felt the weight of my own sin and my own actions, and it was no longer your fault. It was no longer I was given a bad hand or dealt a bad hand. It was no longer I just I owned it in that moment and and looking back, that was the most beautiful day of my life. And I just said, It crushed me, but it was, it was this moment where I felt this weight. But then I saw, I saw the gospel like, hey, this weight is paid for. And I felt loved, and I felt seen right where I was not that I needed to clean up, to come to God, that He allowed me to feel this and then say, Come to me all her heavy laden and weary, and I'll give you rest for your soul. I don't know. I guess it's a weird thing to if someone's watching that is struggling and doesn't have a faith. I guess, you know, I would advise, you know, hey, reach out if just ask if God's real, for Him to reveal Himself to you and sit there if it's a family member, pray for the loved one. You know, I believe that prayer is powerful, that God's word tells us that the prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective, and it's not because I'm righteous. I remember teaching that in the class, and a guy is like, hey, Pastor, Adam, I'm at rehab. I'm not righteous. So are my prayers not powerful? I don't know why you're telling us to do this. And I said, Man, that's the point of the gospel. It's not my righteousness. It's not I'm not righteous, but it's because of Jesus's righteousness. He came and lived perfect for 33 and a half years. And if I've surrendered my life to him, I'm now seen by God. It's called the great exchange my sin, that weight that I felt, that crushed me for his righteousness. And so I'm now seen through the eyes of his righteousness. So my prayers are powerful. So believers pray for your loved ones, pray for your family, your friends, that God crushes them and shows them who he is. And so I guess, I guess that answered the best I can really.
Carli 22:33
There's something so authentic in how you speak that I think people really will relate to because you've been there and you've seen stuff, and when we talk about the big C church for people that are Christ followers, it's the idea of the local church, right, that all of the Body of Christ, and I think a lot of people have a lot of church hurt because of that idea of the prayers of the righteous, right? There's a lot of people that think that they're righteous because aren't in Rahab, yeah, because we haven't done those things.
Adam Comer 23:06
And I think I know what I've learned. You know what I've learned? I don't mean to cut you off, yeah, please, because I've worked with a lot of churches, which is so cool, such a position to be in, that I've get to come alongside of a lot of different brands and but what I've learned over the over a decade, everyone's jacked up. We're all a mess. Everyone. Yeah, some people wear that mask and it's, I'm good brother. Hey, everything's great. How are you doing, you know? And they're Sunday morning, but they're dying inside. But what I've learned is everyone's jacked up, not just addiction is just one thing, you know, but everyone, we're all, you know, living on the side of Genesis three, and so a fallen world. And so everyone has issues. So So, yeah, I think the problem would be, is the mask, like people with stigma, whether it be addiction or whatever you struggle with, or whatever is going on in your life, you don't want people to see it, and that's fine. I'm not telling you to go out and shout from the rooftops your darkest secrets. But there definitely needs to be people in your life that know you, and you allow them to know you and and they got your back, and they can see your six and you can see theirs. And that's what we're designed to do. We're designed to be in fellowship. God said in Genesis two, before Genesis three. So the fall happens in Genesis three, before Genesis three, he said, It's not good for man to be alone, so we're designed to be in fellowship with each other. And when you wear that mask, it's like no one really knows you, and you don't really know anyone, and so you're not in real community with people. And I think that's a big deal.
Carli 24:35
I think that's a freeing message for anybody listening, not just people that have had addiction or struggled with pills or drugs or alcohol or sex or porn or you name it. I mean, I think anyone can wear a mask that hides their true self, and there is freedom in community and being known by other people.
Adam Comer 24:55
I heard this a while ago, a man who hides nothing has nothing. To hide, you know. And there's freedom in that. There's freedom in knowing that I'm not a perfect person, but I don't have to hide anything. And, yeah, I don't have to look over my shoulder anymore, you know. And there's a lot of freedom there.
Spencer 25:15
I've got a question for individuals that are going through the types of things that you've been through. You talked earlier in your story that you did some evil things you lied to a lot of people took things that didn't belong to you and often did it to those that love you the most. And that is such a story of addiction that I think a lot of people can really relate to and for those that have to journey alongside someone that is going through it, it can feel particularly helpless, because I want to believe when someone that I'm going with is telling me, yeah, I'm sober, I'm doing this, I'm these things, and you want to help them, but The last thing that you want to do is enable them or believe everything that they say, knowing that they have lied in the past. So if you're speaking to the family of those that are going with someone, how would you coach them in that? Because I struggle with that myself, and that I'm close to people that are going through it, and there's times where I really do want to help them with sometimes it's money, sometimes it's opportunity, just trust. But I can't help but feel like that I've been betrayed enough times where I don't know what to do with it.
Adam Comer 26:36
Unfortunately, if someone's in a life of addiction for any length of time they've had to have become a master manipulator, otherwise they probably would be caught early on. And you know what I mean. And so master manipulators know how to say things that sting and maybe make you question yourself, maybe make you think that what you're doing is harsh or wrong, but just, I guess my advice to you is, well, here's a silly statement, not silly, but a very simple statement, and then I'll address it, but make it as easy as possible for someone to walk into a life of recovery, but make it as hard as possible for them to stay in A life of addiction. And so essentially, if, if a family member, I guess the question is, is they're asking or they're giving help, what other, whether it be financial, food, housing, rent, whatever it may be. And I think you just got to remember that you know your sound mind. You have pure intentions, family member, you love this person, but you decide what help is, because the person that you're helping is kind of lost that that that option for now, if you're wondering if they're using or if they're drinking or whatever it may be, there's, there's no matter the way you feel or they're making you feel, there's no shame in asking for someone to take a drug screen. Drug screen or to pass a breathalyzer test if you're helping them, yeah, because you're not going to enable them, because that's not loving loving them is doing the hard thing, having the hard conversations, putting the hard boundaries up, because your main goal is for them to walk out of that life of addiction. But like I said, they will make you feel as though you are the the devil himself, and you're like, Man, I just, I just want you to be accountable for for this. And, you know, I get to decide what help is you don't, you know. So my help is going to look like this, and do it in love and have thick skin and and pray you know that God, that God wrecks them, and they have a moment, because the goal is like one, to save their life them that walk out of this life of addiction. And if that does happen, you know, like I know from my story, I I was so thankful to the people in my life that didn't give up, but they showed me hard love. You know, I remember being dropped off at rehab. I'm a mom telling the person that that, hey, how do I find out about him? He hates us. You know, I didn't. I didn't even process that I hated them. In fact, when she said it, I believe, pretty sure, I was high when, when I was there and she said it, but I remember thinking, why would she say that? I don't hate them? And then looking back, it was they stopped believing my lies, and so I did develop some hatred for them, because they don't believe me when I lie in that wild.
Carli 29:29
I think that's a really interesting nuance, because, like, Hello, my name is Carli, and I'm a people pleaser, and all I want on this earth is to make everyone around me happy. And I've come to a point. Maybe it's just the Lord's work. Maybe it's my level of maturity as I get older. It's mixture of both, where you just realize it is not loving to affirm everyone's choices when they are harming them. And I think we are told by the world and by our culture every day, if I don't. Affirm every choice you're making. I The problem is me, and the truth is, just like, I'm not gonna let my kid play with a light socket because they think it's a good idea, it would be much easier to be passive. But true love is setting the boundaries and making the hard decisions and having the hard conversations. Whether they hate you or not, you can still love someone when they desperately hate you.
Adam Comer 30:25
And in fact, in fact, that's, that's, that's a time when it's really hard to love them. I was very unlovable. And so you intolerant, you bigot. Well, you can be intolerant. I mean, there's a there's a saying that you can enable people to death and so, yeah, knowing and being mature and rest, taking rest, reminding yourself, you know, if you are someone of faith, praying God, you know, I need your peace right now, because it's hard. I know the things that I'm saying are coming off, rolling off the tongue pretty easily, because I've said them 7 billion times, but the action point of them is hard. Like you said, They're going to hate you, and you're trying to love them, and you're trying to do everything you can to help them live. But it will be twisted and turn and put it in your face as though you are the bad guy and you're not. And so you rest in that. You rest in the sound mind. You rest in the counsel that you've received. You rest in that you're, you're prayerfully going through these things, and that you have a peace you know that surpasses understanding, because you've, you've had prayer and supplication, and you've given thanks to God and and he'll provide that peace. And but you have to rest in it, and you have to fight for it, because I get it. It's, that's, I mean, that's the craziest thing in the world, that you're trying to save someone's life and they hate you for it. That doesn't make sense. That's not logical to the sound minded person, you know.
Spencer 31:48
You’re also the executive producer of a documentary, The Forgotten pandemic documentary. Tell us about that and what that's about, where that came from, because putting it into that form had to be a real challenge.
Adam Comer 32:02
So this was, this was something that we feel kind of, kind of in the S2L has been around since 2006 and around 2018, 2019, we're still a nonprofit. We're a 501, c3, but we weren't licensed. We didn't have the doctor, as I said, we didn't have the nurses. We didn't we couldn't take insurance, we didn't have their licensed therapist. It was more of a just Christ centered, peer to peer pastoral type thing, and so we felt called to get licensed, and that's a whole another conversation, but it opened up, you know, a platform to help a lot more people. And inside of that, it was also, you know, hey, this message of hope, this message has to go out. And we felt a real burden and a real love for the capital C church. And so we decided to make this film, award winning documentary. I see that I don't know if I mentioned that before, and then COVID hit, and it was like, it was, it was just crazy. The what, how the Lord opened doors. We had, there's a Christian artist named Zach Williams, who's, you know, sing songs with Dolly Parton. He was in the documentary. There's a Christian group called Casting Crowns, and they were in the documentary. And, in fact, this is bring it back. They were doing shows that drive in theaters. You remember when people were doing that, bands and stuff, and he'll and he allowed us to come and he actually does a Bible study with his band mates and stuff, and we were backstage. We didn't put a lot of that in there, but politicians and pastors and just different people like that were we were able to film, and I had a buddy that is a really good cinematographer. He's never made a film before, but he's, he's been hired by some high level companies to do, I don't know what they call for company, I guess, like, not not commercials, but internal kind of things, but so high level quality stuff. And we, we just went to work and filming this. And it was a, it was a it was something that I'll never do again. But we poured a lot into it, and we didn't want it to be the Christian cheesy thing that people kind of overlook, and yet we wanted to put them confidently, put a message out there that we believed in, that we thought could help. And so what was the objective of the documentary, to equip the church to to let people know that there is a difference in their recovery. Like, hey, Pastor, don't just send them to and I won't say in the name of any place, so you don't get in trouble. But don't know what you're sending, because when you send them there, they return and and they're being taught things that are antithetical to what you're preaching from the pulpit. And so we just wanted to educate. And like I said, I think it's even a quoted in the document, the documentary, Hey, Church, we historically. We march into the storm. We don't pass this, this buck here, we we march into the storm. And we've had some awesome events. We'll have, we, I guess they call them, not conferences, but we have, we'll show the film. For 40 minutes, big group, and then we'll have an export panel, and then we'll do questions and answers and just educate the church. There'll be questions, you name it, and I've probably been asked it, and so it's really a way, it's an amazing tool for the church to start the convo. You know, because a lot of pastors, Carl included, the pastor to church in Miami, him or his family, have never, you know, experienced addiction. And so he was like, Man, I wish this tool was there for us, just to get the conversation started.
Carli 35:27
Now if somebody's sitting here thinking, that is what I need tonight, I'm going to pop my popcorn and we are going to watch this. How do they get their hands on it?
Adam Comer 35:33
Free on YouTube. So it wasn't we were we never, never. Was like, ever, the goal was never Netflix deal, and you know all that, but we were, we did put it around on some streaming services, and we had some offers, and they were so we had it behind a paywall for a while because they would not. We were advised that the AN OFFER would not come in if it's on YouTube. But at this point we we made the decision with some of the recovering Christ stuff that we talked about going to the churches and the thing that Carl's doing, so it's on YouTube, the Forgotten pandemic. The channel is called recovering Christ.
Spencer 36:07
So if this was a whole plan to be a millionaire by 30, like what you talked about, you really took the long road. One other thing I wanted to call out is the entrepreneurial spirit that you had in coming out of S2L and being asked to be the janitor clean toilets, and you did every job on the way up to where S2L you've grown massively in your time there. So will you? Will you humble, brag a second and just talk a little bit about
Adam Comer 36:43
Okay, so, so, when I started with us to I was the fourth staff member, and, you know, just being faithful and God's favor and protection over the years, we have about 60 staff members now, some interns. So, and now we're, we're, we've broke ground on a new 26 bed facility on one of our campuses, and they're flying, and that should be 26 new beds should be available in March, but I think probably more like February.
Spencer 37:14
Where do you feel like that you learned how to be able to come in and run something like this. Because, like, what I hear in your story is, you know, I don't hear the MBA, I don't hear the program of, like, Hey, here's where I got it all.
Carli 37:30
I mean, not a background in economics and marketing.
Spencer 37:33
so where did that? Where did all that come from?
Adam Comer 37:39
Again, give God the glory for everything. And you'll probably get tired of me saying that, but good having good people around you, mentors, yeah, good mentors, but good, good co labors as well. I think, I think naturally or spiritually, I have certain gifts of leadership, you know, through sports and my dad was a coach and, you know, kind of having some leadership type things, but also seeing, you know, not caring who gets the credit for what. But I want the best Christian leaders around me. I thought was an important thing to do. And so we have a guy on our on our team, who's our financial guy, payroll, who was the CFO for old time pottery, you know, so high level type guys, who's also a pastor, and so he pastors a church. So I know when it comes to the nonprofit side and the financial side, you know, we're in good shape. So I wanted to make sure that he's taken care of and he's on the team, and just leaders like that, you know, making sure that God's, you know, given glory by having the right people in the right spots.
Spencer 38:40
So you talk about the new facility that you're constructing breaking ground for 26 new beds. So just a couple stats that we've got. So every day, 548 people are dying from drug and alcohol in America. More than 300 of those are opioid related, and 80% of Tennesseans are uniquely concerned about opioids. We have a third highest addiction death rate in the United States, here in Tennessee and Carli and I, just by nature, are fixers in that when we see a problem like this, it's like, show me what wall to run through. Show me what to advocate for, and let's figure out how to solve for this. So the first part of that is in bringing on those 26 beds. Is it like Spencer? We're building 26 but I could fill 2600 if we had those available. Or is it more like, you know, Spencer? It's not so much capacity as it is, people can't get to us, and so we need, you know, 100 locations across the state help me understand what's the bottleneck in being able to address more of the problem.
Adam Comer 40:00
That's a great question. I think people, and there's some other stats, and I think, by the way, the stats that you give you should always, I always believe that those are so low, yeah. So, I mean, whenever you hear about people with a problem, where I was never interviewed when I was going through stuff, and if I was, I wouldn't have told you the truth, you know. So I think a lot of times the stats are low, which should be alarming. So there's a few aspects. One, people aren't getting the care, getting help, because they don't think they need it yet, until an intervention, if they can make it to an intervention with the fentanyl and everything going on. Two, I think, I think having locations for us again, this is big picture, but I'm always kind of thinking this way. I think when this facility is done, I've been told for over a decade, why is there not a female as to will? Because right now we're an all male, okay? And so the next step for us, I believe, and I'm not until the right people are in place, right? You hear my heart on that earlier, but the right leaders have to be in place. But the next move for us would be to convert one of our current licensed facilities to a female facility, and then maybe a different city. But I definitely think, I think different cities across the nation, because, you know, traveling from we get a lot of people from all over, flying into BNA, to be honest with you, but we also have to be we're also told, No, I can't fly there. I'm not going to leave California, I'm not going to leave New Jersey, I'm not going to leave Florida. And so having some places around I don't ever want to have a big 150 bed facility. I don't think that that's the move. I think the model that we have, the intimacy that we have with 26 or less, maybe a little more, I think it'd be fine. But also, I know the blueprint, you know, I know how many staff, I know, the food cost I know, and that just seems more realistic, you know, to kind of stay small, but expand into other places. But your question was, roadblocks, denial, travel resources can't afford to get in. We have our scholarship fund stays empty, as you can imagine, and it seems like every year we're giving more and more scholarship away. So resources, if someone doesn't have insurance, we partner with churches, and they they give. And so in turn, we give them scholarships. So if they give X number, amount, hey, we give, and we're meeting them there too, which is, which is really a blessing that we can do. But if they give X number, we're going to match it and say, Hey, this is how many full scholarships you get. You know, just send, send them to us, to where man God's favor is so incredible over s 2o because there was a season that we relied on churches and donors just to keep the lights on. I mean, many of times I remember my wife and I just when we go to a fairly large church, just going down and just praying, because we didn't know how we were going to make payroll. And so now to not need the church to keep the lights on and be able to meet them there and really partner, and we just have a heart for for the church. And the church is people, not not buildings, because this issue, as we says, the number one, is a big issue, and so don't reinvent the wheel. Addictions not a surprise to God, let's, let's, let's a rat. What if we could eradicate addiction, at least for the church. What if we could imagine the leaders? Imagine what could happen, the resources, the finances, even if we could, I don't know. Don't get me started.
Carli 43:35
No. That brings me to my question, because I think everyone has in their mind what an addict looks like. Everyone has in their mind what addiction does to your family or how somebody should handle it. Everyone's gonna have their own Sure. Well, you should do this right? What do you wish everyone knew about recovery? Like, if people listen to this were kind of like half tuning in, and you wanted them to leave with one thing. What do you wish they knew?
Adam Comer 44:08
I guess that there's hope, because that's so powerful, and it's such a hopeless feeling of a loved one. I mean, how many conversations I've had with parents, with with spouses, with wives, and they're just the family members even are just hopeless, because maybe they've gone through this journey and to so the message that there is hope, that the pit is not your home, that you don't have to decorate it, that you can climb out. And there's life after addiction. There really is. I've seen, I've seen too much. You're too late to tell me. Otherwise, you know, you're just too late to come in. And over a decade of seeing, generations of families changed because, you know, they found a little bit of hope and their life changed. I get emotional. I'm a crier, too. We talked about this before. Where we started, but we did this is so crazy. But a church asked us to do a revival, a week long revival, and so, man, we were doing it, and it was, you want to talk about some worship, man, these guys that are finding this hope for the first time, they're hungry for the Lord. It's just it's a cool environment. And I'm a very conservative guy. I'm not. I'm not. We're not talking anything crazy. But so we did it. And then on the third the Thursday night, I think I preached on Monday, but by Thursday, I looked around, I went up there, and I had all the guys that have that preached that week so far, or led worship or gave a testimony, and from other states. They were flying in from this state, and it was that had come through our program, alumni of our program, there was like five or seven ordained pastors or elders, not by us, not like mine, where I was like nine different ordination or denominations on my their home church. They go home from coming to the program. Some one came in a devout, militant atheist. In fact, he was, he's a very intellectual guy, and he was trying to convince you not to be, not to believe in Jesus. He goes home, and now he's a youth pastor. We have this guy over here that's ordained by his church as like a preaching pastor. Another guy is the head pastor of a church, another elder, another guy is a worship pastor at North Carolina, the youth pastors in Alabama, and it's just like, this is, this is this is generational. This is revival. You know, this is not anything special because of addiction, but this is what can happen. So there's hope. And I don't know that's a that's a cool thing. You know, we have a saying from the rooms of recovery to the revival of a nation, and we believe that, and even even the the generational aspect of when dad or husband comes and is not being a good husband, not being a good dad, when he has that crushing moment and has hope and is Starting to be the father or the husband who's supposed to be, like we've seen just generations change, like kids and like, it's, it's, it's, it's big time stuff happening that's affecting kids for who knows how long to come. It's pretty cool.
Spencer 47:17
Adam, I've never been a part of a revival, and can't say that I really know exactly, like, mechanically, what that even that's only one we've ever done. Yes, does it like, start at 8am and go till midnight. Like, how is it worship? Speaking, like, just help us.
Adam Comer 47:33
So for this one, this one was called, so one of the guys who's on staff with us is also a teaching pastor for a church, and they had gotten with him. And this one was called Voices of redemption, voices of the redeemed revival. And it was 7pm worship, and then we had different worship teams come in and stuff like that. And then that Church's worship team did it, and then we had a testimony for seven minutes, and that was an alumni or a staff member or intern, and then we had a pastor bring just a word, and then we close with some some worship music. And primarily it was that church congregation that was there. Now we we advertise it all over the city. I think there's actually two different churches that really showed up, but yeah, that's, that's what that revival looked like.
Spencer 48:22
See, I think that's super important. Because when I if you would have asked me to define a revival before you told me that, I mean, that's was my head space. I was like, 8am run until midnight. You've got, you know, speaking and worship and like, somebody standing up in the crowd and been like, I feel the presence of the Lord, and, hey, that all feels so impossibly intimidating, intimidating. Yeah, like that's never going to happen in my church or otherwise. But instead, what I hear from you is is like it's within the body of the church that, you know, there's worship. It's not like Casting Crowns is coming in and singing that day and burning it down. But you know, it's that, and it's a brief testimony and a word, I think those are important road maps. That really gets to the heart of some of what we're talking here today is that a lot of people, whether they're the ones suffering from addiction or whether it's their family members, is there's just no road map for how to start, yeah, and I think that's what you do a great job of in explaining is just I've been down this road as an addict, as going through and having an incredible, transformed life, and then I started all over as cleaning the toilets and then driving the vehicles, and now I'm seeing you over the place, but you had that authenticity all the way through, and I think that's just such a great message that I want to compliment you on is I think you're laying a track that unfortunately or fortunately, you had to walk those steps. Yeah, to begin with, but now you're showing other people how to how to do it.
Adam Comer 50:04
Yeah. And that's, I think, very kind words. Thank you. It was unfortunate at a season, but now I look back and it's fortunate just just I see, God, okay, see what you're doing. But the way I believe we weren't we found each other was through Williamson College. We, they were presenting me an award, and I was speaking at it, but we, we've started a partnership, and so this another kind of revival thing, another kind of teaching them, but they give a tuition discount for every graduate of our program and three hours course credit for alumni of our program because of the way our our curriculum structure, that's really neat. And so higher education partner, I mean, think about stigma busters, yeah, like, that's, that's an incredible thing. And so this was announced that night, I think you were friends with one of the speakers or presenters, or the MC or something like that, the way I was told. But there was announced that night, but it's going to be kind of officially launched soon. They're creating a course about addiction, recovery, leadership, master's level course to kind of really train people to duplicate this, because it doesn't s 2l is God's ministry. It doesn't have to be as to well, but let's have 1000s of these all over the country that are bringing God glory and educating people, equipping the church and helping people find freedom.
Carli 51:25
Well, the more you talk about it, the more people can talk about it. That's right, yeah, the less of a stigma there is. And I do want to ask you have two kids your wife has? I want to meet her like a miraculous woman through all of the ups and downs with you. I would guess she's probably the real superhero she is.
Adam Comer 51:43
That's why, if you see my testimony, anytime I talk about her, I just start balling because she's just, she's amazing.
Carli 51:49
Well, I just am wondering, how do your kids talk about what you do when they're like, hey, what does daddy do? Yeah,
Adam Comer 51:55
so Eli's nine, my son's nine, and my daughter Ella is seven, and so we haven't had. It's coming with Eli, about a little bit more. Here's what daddy's past looks like. But it's pastor, it's they know, s 2l they've come to the events, you know, and stuff. I will take the guys paintball. Well, I haven't taken a paintball, but we'll go canoeing and stuff. I can bring them to they'll come. We have a service called catapult. They've been to that so they don't know daddy's full testimony. I'm not ashamed to tell them, and they will know. But you know, trying to age appropriately. You know they know what drugs are. They know we help people at us too well who struggle with that. So it's kind of those conversations now a deeper one's coming for Eli, probably a season fourth grade, probably next year. I think before he hits Middle School is when I'll kind of peel back a little bit more of the of the onion and let him know a little bit more about some of my struggles. Because, man, it's different than when we were in school. I think, I think things probably get a little more serious for middle schoolers nowadays.
Carli 53:03
I appreciate, though one of Spence and I as big parenting sayings that we say to each other is like, let them be little. Life gets hard enough, fast enough, and I really appreciate we try to do this in our own ways. We try to bring our kids along. They can't handle everything about everything all at once, but you just bring them along little by little, so that when your full story is unveiled, it's not a surprise. They've seen the thread of God's grace from beginning to end, but it's not their burden to carry. Yeah, that's good yet. And so I appreciate that transparency, because I think a lot of people like we got to tell them, they got to know. They got to preach it, or they never get to know, right? This is my story, not their story, and I really appreciate the authenticity of that nuance, because life is not black and white. There's a lot of gray, and kids are pretty black and white creatures, wow.
Adam Comer 53:56
And honestly, it's a blessing to me that I get to do it that way because my kids, I never struggled. I didn't have kids during my struggle, by God's grace. You know, was had been walking in freedom for a few years, when we finally got pregnant, and so, you know, they they've never seen that side. They've never had an absent father. And that's not the case for everyone so that, but there's still hope and there's still redemption in those stories. That's what I mean by the generational like impact. When a guy comes with a program and they have a 10 year old, 13 year old, that daddy's man, he's a he's a scumbag. He's never here. He's always treating us badly, in and out of jail, all this and the SEE GOD capture his heart, and like he is a new creation, and he goes home, and he's like humble and and he's leading Bible Studies that has to have an effect on a 13 year old that's only seen the monster for however many years, and to see him walk in like meek and humble and gentle. And it's not fake. You know, it's not like, I know the manipulation stuff that's and to see it, maybe they're cautious at first, but man, that has an effect on the whole house. If God can do that to him, this God might be real. You know, this God might be real. After all, I want to, I got to know a little bit more about that situation. So that's kind of what I mean about it really impacts the whole the whole house, when, when God gets a hold of someone,
Carli 55:24
there's hope for all of the crevices.
Adam Comer 55:27
I mean, even the heroes of our faith, biblically, if you look at them, the Bible is very intentional about showing us their flaws.
Carli 55:30
They were also hot messes.
Adam Comer 55:32
They were also hot messes. They were, yeah, they were jacked up, for sure.
Spencer 55:40
That's what I really feel like is one of the real authenticity provers of the Gospel is that, if any of us were writing the gospel, yeah, you would, we would not include you would take that out. Yeah, you wouldn't put that in there. You don't put that about your hero and all the stuff you just, you know, leave that to the imagination or anything. So it's just, that's a strong apologetic.
Adam Comer 55:59
That's, that's what, when you break down the authenticity of the Bible and stuff like that, you got to ask the question, why would he put that? He that that, you know, Noah got drunk with his kids. Yeah, you know, why would you?
Spencer 56:10
I have King David be with Bathsheba and kill her husband?
Adam Comer 56:13
Why would you put that in when you're trying to lift this guy up, a man after God's own heart? So, I mean, that's a great, that's a, that's a that's one of the things and apologetics that people will use when talking about the authenticity of the Bible.
Spencer 56:24
One way that we like to kind of bring our podcast to a close is we give you three short phrases where we ask you to fill in the blank on something that just comes to mind and all the rest. So I'll read these three, and just one at a time, fill in the blank force. Okay, one misconception about addiction recovery is blank
Adam Comer 56:44
That you are doomed to that your whole life.
Spencer 56:48
That's a good one. Right out of the gates. That was a really good one, okay, two, faith-based recovery is different because blank,
Adam Comer 57:01
You're told that you're not doomed to that your whole life. No, I believe, because it is foundational. I believe that addiction is a spiritual issue. And so if, if, and I think a lot of people agree to that, if you really broke it down. And so if you're going to be dealing with a spiritual issue, faith is a very important, important piece. So long answer to the phrase
Spencer 57:26
That was perfect, really, really good. Okay, yeah, the role of community in overcoming addiction is blank,
Adam Comer 57:35
Massive, as we talked about before. I mean, that's how we were designed. We also mentioned COVID Before, the amount of alcohol abuse during COVID, when we were isolated and shelter in place, or whatever it was, skyrocketed, because, for some reason, liquor stores were considered essential businesses and could stay open, but yeah, when people couldn't, I mean, go back and look at the numbers, I challenge you, and you know, I'll just take my word for it, but, yeah, alcoholism skyrocketed during that time. So So community is very important, because that's how we're designed, and it's it's good to know people have your back, and it's good to have someone's back, you know, to serve someone else.
Spencer 58:21
So pastor, Adam, thank you for being so real with us and sharing from your journey. It is not easy to be vulnerable, like what you have been here today and what you do every day, but it is that vulnerability that allows you to be the leader that you are that has turned from four employees to 60, that is clearly the hand of the Lord on you in growing this, and you've been very humble in acknowledging that. But I think the road maps that you are showing people are ones that are just as applicable to those struggling with addiction as the ones journeying with loved ones that are going through it, and so I'm excited to see the growth. I'm so thankful that it is here in Tennessee. Yeah, we need it here, and I love that you haven't forgotten your roots, coming from East Tennessee and serving from end to end of the state. I think that's really special, and it's a real treat to give you a little bit of a megaphone to talk about today. Well, thanks.
Adam Comer 59:23
Really appreciate the opportunity. And you guys sitting down with me and allowing me to tell my story.
Spencer 59:34
Pastor Adam comer with S2L and his journey from addict to recovered to now, going alongside people going through exactly that thing is a really amazing, authentic look into what's real life for a ton of Tennesseans and Americans all across the US.
Carli 59:58
I really appreciate that. What people didn't hear was, before you started, you were clearing his bio, like, is this correct? Are you happy for me to say this? The only thing he wanted you to say was that he was a pastor, yeah, the humility was really a thread throughout for him, and I feel like we keep seeing that in our guests, the ones that are really making an impact, they are called to wash the toilets and drive the trucks and do the work that they never saw themselves doing before, being elevated. And I think that that thread continued today
Spencer 1:00:34
There is a real element of being willing to be a servant before you can have any level of being trusted to be a leader. And he shows that in multiple occasions where it's kind of like the Lord has a corkscrew that goes deeper into your soul, is to say, Okay, you trusted me with this level of servanthood, of setting your ego aside. But do you trust me with this level? And then if you pass that test, it's this level, and it's just winding down that corkscrew deeper into your heart. And he really passes that test.
Carli 1:01:17
And well, because the higher you rise, the more you have to die to self, to serve. And so it just the process of getting there is not how much can I get by growing here. It's how much am I willing to be stripped, yeah, before I can take the next step.
Spencer 1:01:34
I joke with my leadership team sometimes that, you know, I have forfeited my right to come off the elevator onto our floor and just be like, what the world is going on? You know, running up and down the hall, mad upset. I was like, Do you know what pandemonium would break out here if I came and it was just absolutely unhinged. And, you know, they all laugh immediately. And that's part of it, is that as much as you feel like that, you have earned the right to just lose it for a bit. You sacrifice that in your journey to become a leader. And he's done the same thing in that it would be easy for him to tell his story in a really glossed over narrative. But instead, he was clear to say what I did was evil. I hurt those that loved me the most, and that is really raw to say that and know that if it weren't for he called it the modality, but what he's really saying is, if it wasn't for a faith centered journey of recovery, he could very well have just been another statistic of someone that has died. And I think the stats that he gave us of something like 12% of those going through secular recovery actually are still sober some one five years later, and they're experiencing five times The rate. That's incredible.
Carli 1:03:19
I mean, it hits down to this question of identity. And not to get all like meta out there, but we sit down here and talk about a lot of different topics, right? We've talked about social media and online pressure. Is that not an identity problem of how people are putting their identity in the hands of followers and liked? We sat across from Melissa Trevathan, who's talking about, if a kid has a mental health challenge, we don't want their diagnosis to be their identity. Yeah, we don't want our struggles to be our identity. It's no different that what Adam's saying is what you have done is not who you are, yeah. And I just really feel like people need to hear that, because hope comes from nothing else.
Spencer 1:04:04
Okay, that's super powerful. The world is eager to tell you your identity and say, if you're searching for meaning, you will find meaning in this identity. And the tricky part is that you will often find community, yeah, in an identity that is anything. But of the Lord is that you will find community amongst the addicted, yeah, and I think it's a powerful community, and one that is there for you. They won't judge you. They are universally available. And when you are no longer an addict, not only is it hard to stop taking the substances, but at the same time, you're leaving the community, which for many is probably worse than the drug addiction themselves, of losing that community, because you're resetting everything about who you are and who you associate. With in life. And I think that's also why the smallness of what Adam is trying to do of like, we don't want to be 150 bed facility or 1000 bed facility. We want to be small and be focused and do a good job. And I think that's also a really accurate design of the church, and what the church has been over a lot of years, is that churches can grow to be big, but as soon as they lose that community aspect and the smallness, it's all over.
Carli 1:05:33
I think one of the most, at least, what I will really take away from our conversation is the idea of masks. And he was talking about you have if you want authentic connection, you have to take the mask off so people can actually know you.
Spencer 1:05:45
Mask, meaning, like your identity, what you want people to
Carli 1:05:49
think you are. And towards the end, he was saying pride was an issue, and it's like, that is my number one thing that the Lord has to deal with me is this idea that I want to do it all right? I want to be pretty well I do it, and I want to keep it together, and how I you just, you just freaking can't all the time, and it doesn't mean that you like wave the flag of your errors and your struggles in front of everyone, but somebody has to know you, and you have to take off the mask for that to happen. And I felt really convicted in that moment. I felt really challenged, and I was really glad he said it, because I felt it pin prick at me and be like, Oh, I needed to hear that today. And if I did, then I imagine I can't be the only one.
